Hyundai heads were recently mentioning their failure to address quality, claiming it's been about quantity in the past. They apparently want people to "love" the Hyundai brand. I think the efforts to quality are noticibly paying off, however as automobiles, they totally lack soul and personallity. They're improving the way toasters and consumer electronics have improved, not nessecarily in a way that makes you cherish them as automobiles. They also lack a design language; at least they lack their own design language. It's just too easy to Mr. Potato Head your cars from other's signature design features and concept cars. Put short, if you'd buy a Toyota, you should be happy with a modern Hyundai.
Korean Cars
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Not a big fan of Hyundai, I was in their new expensive model. Forget what its called but I think it goes for about $60k. I guess if I had no experience in German, British, Japanese, or American luxury cars I would have been impressed.
To me it felt like a half done rip off of an S class, like a $20 Rolex you buy from an Asian guy on the street.
Although I think they might have banged their target market, its the perfect car for real estate agents. It lets you drive a decent enough car while not looking like your making to much money.
To me it felt like a half done rip off of an S class, like a $20 Rolex you buy from an Asian guy on the street.
Although I think they might have banged their target market, its the perfect car for real estate agents. It lets you drive a decent enough car while not looking like your making to much money.
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Lots of hater's in here. Regardless what anyone in here thinks about them, the sales of the cars is the final tell. Apparently, lots of people like them.
Originally Posted By: PostalBound
Lots of hater's in here. Regardless what anyone in here thinks about them, the sales of the cars is the final tell. Apparently, lots of people like them.
Let's find out how those people feel in five or six years from now. I have heard reports that even the current Kia/Hyundai products suffer from rapid deterioration ....maybe not as bad as when they first arrived on the scene but not as good as the Japanese at the same point in their evolution in the market.
Lots of hater's in here. Regardless what anyone in here thinks about them, the sales of the cars is the final tell. Apparently, lots of people like them.
Let's find out how those people feel in five or six years from now. I have heard reports that even the current Kia/Hyundai products suffer from rapid deterioration ....maybe not as bad as when they first arrived on the scene but not as good as the Japanese at the same point in their evolution in the market.
I actually work in a Kia shop as a detailer. The 2011's look nice, but I still wouldn't buy one right now, unproven reliability.
Also, the technician's hate the cars, they are a real pain in the butt to work on, nothing is simple. A timing belt on a Sorento flags 6 hours labor, that's rediculous. Plus, the warranty repair labor allotments, is rediculously low.
Also, the technician's hate the cars, they are a real pain in the butt to work on, nothing is simple. A timing belt on a Sorento flags 6 hours labor, that's rediculous. Plus, the warranty repair labor allotments, is rediculously low.
Originally Posted By: subiedriver
In the 2012 CR buyer's guide, GM has about 50 cars on the "worst of the worst" list, lmao. Subaru, they have......wait for it.....TWO!
In all honesty, if I were looking for a midsize car, I'd take a hard look at the Fusion, good car.
What's wrong with Suby? They make very well built vehicles...
In the 2012 CR buyer's guide, GM has about 50 cars on the "worst of the worst" list, lmao. Subaru, they have......wait for it.....TWO!
In all honesty, if I were looking for a midsize car, I'd take a hard look at the Fusion, good car.
What's wrong with Suby? They make very well built vehicles...
Korean cars may well be great cars. But I'm not ready to pay $30,000+ for one of them. The fiance and I just test drove a new Kia Optima, and it is an awesome looking car, and it drove well....but they wanted $33,000....I might pay $23,000 but never more for a Korean car...they have come a long way but I need more time before I can perceive them on the same level as a Honda, or Toyota.
Originally Posted By: lovcom
Korean cars may well be great cars. But I'm not ready to pay $30,000+ for one of them. The fiance and I just test drove a new Kia Optima, and it is an awesome looking car, and it drove well....but they wanted $33,000....I might pay $23,000 but never more for a Korean car...they have come a long way but I need more time before I can perceive them on the same level as a Honda, or Toyota.
The one thing I thought made Korean vehicles attractive is gone...they used to be priced far less than competitors...not anymore...
Korean cars may well be great cars. But I'm not ready to pay $30,000+ for one of them. The fiance and I just test drove a new Kia Optima, and it is an awesome looking car, and it drove well....but they wanted $33,000....I might pay $23,000 but never more for a Korean car...they have come a long way but I need more time before I can perceive them on the same level as a Honda, or Toyota.
The one thing I thought made Korean vehicles attractive is gone...they used to be priced far less than competitors...not anymore...
Originally Posted By: Vikas
Did we have BOTG when Lexus LS400 first hit the streets? If so, it will be a good exercise to read what we thought about Toyota's entry in the luxury market.
This is not valid...apples and oranges....the Lexus came out of Toyota, and at a time far after Toyota proved it's self to be a very dependable and reliable car maker. So buying a first year, first model Lexus was a heck of a lot safer than buying even a 2nd or 3rd gen Korean car. Apples and Oranges. And that first year Lexus proved to be a massive hit too!
In contrast, Kia came out of Kia, and has a very bad reputation in it's recent past. Now it could be that today, it is a fine car, but their bad recent reputation is not yet forgotten.
Did we have BOTG when Lexus LS400 first hit the streets? If so, it will be a good exercise to read what we thought about Toyota's entry in the luxury market.
This is not valid...apples and oranges....the Lexus came out of Toyota, and at a time far after Toyota proved it's self to be a very dependable and reliable car maker. So buying a first year, first model Lexus was a heck of a lot safer than buying even a 2nd or 3rd gen Korean car. Apples and Oranges. And that first year Lexus proved to be a massive hit too!
In contrast, Kia came out of Kia, and has a very bad reputation in it's recent past. Now it could be that today, it is a fine car, but their bad recent reputation is not yet forgotten.
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I find myself wondering how many people in this thread even know that Hyundai literally cant give a car away in Japan. For ten years they tried to sell cars in Japan...swimming upstream against cultural bias and a strong home team market share. Well in ten years, their total sales didn't even break 16,000 cars...so they have completely abandoned the passenger car market in Japan.
Nuthin' wrong with Suby, the Legacy's are great cars, but I really don't care for the 2010 and newer styling. It looks like they tried way too hard.
Originally Posted By: grampi
The one thing I thought made Korean vehicles attractive is gone...they used to be priced far less than competitors...not anymore...
I tend to agree.
The weakest part of any of the volume Korean cars is the suspensions and driver controls...These cars are sloppy handling in general and the driver controls are not much better. I constantly hear comments about sloppy shifters, numb steering, and mushy handling...
I'm not saying they should handle like a sports car, but clearly Hyundai and Kia still can't match those traits compared to Honda and Mazda competitor product. Even Toyota is better.
You'll notice on many car sites that when you start asking questions about handling the Hyundai and Kia shills get very quiet or try and change the direction of the discussion.
The one thing I thought made Korean vehicles attractive is gone...they used to be priced far less than competitors...not anymore...
I tend to agree.
The weakest part of any of the volume Korean cars is the suspensions and driver controls...These cars are sloppy handling in general and the driver controls are not much better. I constantly hear comments about sloppy shifters, numb steering, and mushy handling...
I'm not saying they should handle like a sports car, but clearly Hyundai and Kia still can't match those traits compared to Honda and Mazda competitor product. Even Toyota is better.
You'll notice on many car sites that when you start asking questions about handling the Hyundai and Kia shills get very quiet or try and change the direction of the discussion.
Originally Posted By: LS2JSTS
I find myself wondering how many people in this thread even know that Hyundai literally cant give a car away in Japan. For ten years they tried to sell cars in Japan...swimming upstream against cultural bias and a strong home team market share. Well in ten years, their total sales didn't even break 16,000 cars...so they have completely abandoned the passenger car market in Japan.
What do you expect from people who hate Koreans the most?
I find myself wondering how many people in this thread even know that Hyundai literally cant give a car away in Japan. For ten years they tried to sell cars in Japan...swimming upstream against cultural bias and a strong home team market share. Well in ten years, their total sales didn't even break 16,000 cars...so they have completely abandoned the passenger car market in Japan.
What do you expect from people who hate Koreans the most?
Originally Posted By: Vikas
Did we have BOTG when Lexus LS400 first hit the streets? If so, it will be a good exercise to read what we thought about Toyota's entry in the luxury market.
The LS400 was and is a very good car, the Hyundai falls short.
The LS400 is just about every bit as good as its European contemporaries. I know it scared the [censored] out of Mercedes and BMW hence the W140 in Mercedes case. It was certainly a far better car than anything coming out of Detroit at the time.
Did we have BOTG when Lexus LS400 first hit the streets? If so, it will be a good exercise to read what we thought about Toyota's entry in the luxury market.
The LS400 was and is a very good car, the Hyundai falls short.
The LS400 is just about every bit as good as its European contemporaries. I know it scared the [censored] out of Mercedes and BMW hence the W140 in Mercedes case. It was certainly a far better car than anything coming out of Detroit at the time.
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Propflux01
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Originally Posted By: urchin
Let's find out how those people feel in five or six years from now. I have heard reports that even the current Kia/Hyundai products suffer from rapid deterioration ....maybe not as bad as when they first arrived on the scene but not as good as the Japanese at the same point in their evolution in the market.
I have owned a 1987 excel, 2002 Hyundai Elantra, 2002 Sante Fe, 2006 Sonata, 2008 Sonata. NONE of these cars, including the Excel has ever been back to dealer for other than recalled items and a horn that went out. None had any more "rapid deterioration" that any other car I have seen on the road. The Excel had 98K on it when the Ex got it in divorce. The Sante Fe is still with us at 149K, the Elantra was traded for the 2006 Sonata, which had 105K when killed in accident, and was replaced with the 2008 Sonata which currently has 69K. I think people are just harder on the Hyundai name, and probably from the Excel, But in my age, I remember very clearly the hatred and such for Japanese cars in the 70's and 80's. What was funny was the more people that bought them, the more I heard from the haters what junk they were. Funny how that "junk" has morphed in to the biggest selling cars. I see the same pattern with Hyundai cars right now too. I see more and more on the road, and hear more and more haters bashing. Just a repeat of Japan's fare in the 70's and 80's...
Let's find out how those people feel in five or six years from now. I have heard reports that even the current Kia/Hyundai products suffer from rapid deterioration ....maybe not as bad as when they first arrived on the scene but not as good as the Japanese at the same point in their evolution in the market.
I have owned a 1987 excel, 2002 Hyundai Elantra, 2002 Sante Fe, 2006 Sonata, 2008 Sonata. NONE of these cars, including the Excel has ever been back to dealer for other than recalled items and a horn that went out. None had any more "rapid deterioration" that any other car I have seen on the road. The Excel had 98K on it when the Ex got it in divorce. The Sante Fe is still with us at 149K, the Elantra was traded for the 2006 Sonata, which had 105K when killed in accident, and was replaced with the 2008 Sonata which currently has 69K. I think people are just harder on the Hyundai name, and probably from the Excel, But in my age, I remember very clearly the hatred and such for Japanese cars in the 70's and 80's. What was funny was the more people that bought them, the more I heard from the haters what junk they were. Funny how that "junk" has morphed in to the biggest selling cars. I see the same pattern with Hyundai cars right now too. I see more and more on the road, and hear more and more haters bashing. Just a repeat of Japan's fare in the 70's and 80's...
Originally Posted By: urchin
I'm not saying they should handle like a sports car, but clearly Hyundai and Kia still can't match those traits compared to Honda and Mazda competitor product. Even Toyota is better.
The funny thing about that is that the original Kias brought to the United States were based on Mazdas.
The Festiva was a Mazda 121. The Sephia was built on a 323/Protege' chassis.
But the Sephia did not handle like a Protege' or even as well as a Ford Escort that shared the same chassis. and I don't know what they did to that shifter but it was the most vague thing ever.
But Hyundai/Kia is getting better. They took a swing at the Mustang with the Genesis Coupe.
I'm not saying they should handle like a sports car, but clearly Hyundai and Kia still can't match those traits compared to Honda and Mazda competitor product. Even Toyota is better.
The funny thing about that is that the original Kias brought to the United States were based on Mazdas.
The Festiva was a Mazda 121. The Sephia was built on a 323/Protege' chassis.
But the Sephia did not handle like a Protege' or even as well as a Ford Escort that shared the same chassis. and I don't know what they did to that shifter but it was the most vague thing ever.
But Hyundai/Kia is getting better. They took a swing at the Mustang with the Genesis Coupe.
Originally Posted By: Spazdog
Originally Posted By: urchin
I'm not saying they should handle like a sports car, but clearly Hyundai and Kia still can't match those traits compared to Honda and Mazda competitor product. Even Toyota is better.
The funny thing about that is that the original Kias brought to the United States were based on Mazdas.
The Festiva was a Mazda 121. The Sephia was built on a 323/Protege' chassis.
But the Sephia did not handle like a Protege' or even as well as a Ford Escort that shared the same chassis. and I don't know what they did to that shifter but it was the most vague thing ever.
But Hyundai/Kia is getting better. They took a swing at the Mustang with the Genesis Coupe.
And Mercedes-Benz with the Genesis and Equus.
China/Korea/Taiwan have always been the masters of copying stuff
i cant lie, id buy an Equus. MAYBE a Genesis, but definitely an Equus.
Originally Posted By: urchin
I'm not saying they should handle like a sports car, but clearly Hyundai and Kia still can't match those traits compared to Honda and Mazda competitor product. Even Toyota is better.
The funny thing about that is that the original Kias brought to the United States were based on Mazdas.
The Festiva was a Mazda 121. The Sephia was built on a 323/Protege' chassis.
But the Sephia did not handle like a Protege' or even as well as a Ford Escort that shared the same chassis. and I don't know what they did to that shifter but it was the most vague thing ever.
But Hyundai/Kia is getting better. They took a swing at the Mustang with the Genesis Coupe.
And Mercedes-Benz with the Genesis and Equus.
China/Korea/Taiwan have always been the masters of copying stuff
i cant lie, id buy an Equus. MAYBE a Genesis, but definitely an Equus.
Originally Posted By: LS2JSTS
I find myself wondering how many people in this thread even know that Hyundai literally cant give a car away in Japan. For ten years they tried to sell cars in Japan...swimming upstream against cultural bias and a strong home team market share. Well in ten years, their total sales didn't even break 16,000 cars...so they have completely abandoned the passenger car market in Japan.
Ford, Chrysler, and GM cars been unsuccessful in Japan. There is a loyalty that binds Japanese consumers (and automobile distributors) to Japan's manufacturers. Exceptions are BMW and Mercedes-Benz because German products, dating back to the 1930s, are perceived as prestigious.
Loyalty is a very respected value of Japanese culture.
In addition the Japanese are quite racist, particularly to other Asians. The Koreans are held in particular contempt.
I find myself wondering how many people in this thread even know that Hyundai literally cant give a car away in Japan. For ten years they tried to sell cars in Japan...swimming upstream against cultural bias and a strong home team market share. Well in ten years, their total sales didn't even break 16,000 cars...so they have completely abandoned the passenger car market in Japan.
Ford, Chrysler, and GM cars been unsuccessful in Japan. There is a loyalty that binds Japanese consumers (and automobile distributors) to Japan's manufacturers. Exceptions are BMW and Mercedes-Benz because German products, dating back to the 1930s, are perceived as prestigious.
Loyalty is a very respected value of Japanese culture.
In addition the Japanese are quite racist, particularly to other Asians. The Koreans are held in particular contempt.
Originally Posted By: Wilhelm_D
Ford, Chrysler, and GM cars been unsuccessful in Japan. There is a loyalty that binds Japanese consumers (and automobile distributors) to Japan's manufacturers. Exceptions are BMW and Mercedes-Benz because German products, dating back to the 1930s, are perceived as prestigious.
Loyalty is a very respected value of Japanese culture.
In addition the Japanese are quite racist, particularly to other Asians. The Koreans are held in particular contempt.
GM had an inroad to Japan through Isuzu and Suzuki.
instead they sent the Japanese the Cavalier. Stuck a Toyota badge on it. Some Saturn S-series were sent to Japan as well but I think that was a publicity thing like, "look! our cars can be sent to Japan because they are as good as Japanese cars!!"
Ford does sell it's B3 and C1 platforms in Japan. They're Mazdas though.
AFAIK, Chrysler didn't even try in Japan.
I understand why older Koreans do not like the Japanese. Imperial Japan enslaved them, killed them wholesale, and deforested their country. I've never figured out the Japanese side of the hate. Just racism like you said. (and the term "racism" appropo as they believe themselves to be a different race than mainland Asians.)
Ford, Chrysler, and GM cars been unsuccessful in Japan. There is a loyalty that binds Japanese consumers (and automobile distributors) to Japan's manufacturers. Exceptions are BMW and Mercedes-Benz because German products, dating back to the 1930s, are perceived as prestigious.
Loyalty is a very respected value of Japanese culture.
In addition the Japanese are quite racist, particularly to other Asians. The Koreans are held in particular contempt.
GM had an inroad to Japan through Isuzu and Suzuki.
Ford does sell it's B3 and C1 platforms in Japan. They're Mazdas though.
AFAIK, Chrysler didn't even try in Japan.
I understand why older Koreans do not like the Japanese. Imperial Japan enslaved them, killed them wholesale, and deforested their country. I've never figured out the Japanese side of the hate. Just racism like you said. (and the term "racism" appropo as they believe themselves to be a different race than mainland Asians.)
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