Kind of like how oil recommendations and “proof of efficacy” are gleaned from $30 spectrographic analyses and typical-value PDS.most of the info gleaned from this forum revolves around the looks of the filter.For myself, after spending 40+ year working in a fleet where whatever low bid or whatever is cheapest is the rule, I stick by that method too.
I will admit when I was younger and less experienced I actually thought branding and marketing claims etc made a difference but I don't anymore.
K&N Premium Filter is nothing more than a Supertech
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Where is that happening? I've used these things for the last ~25 years in every vehicle I've owned - no engine rebuilds. 220K/14 years on the Jetta with one. The main reason for average folks to not use them is b/c it requires an extra bit of work to wash/oil them that most folks that aren't "car people" don't want ot mess with....not b/c your engine wears out faster...
I long ago learned to ignore all the nonsense and marketing, having discovered that an oil that meets the specs is pretty much the same as another oil that meets the specs.
same line of thinking applies to filter specs.. thinking to myself is most particulates in the oil are sub-microscopic wear metals or combustion by products.. and the average bearing clearance in an engine is .002" and knowing that 30 microns is .00118" my thoughts are any 30 micron or less particles in the oil probably pass thru along with the oil so it all really doesn't make any difference.
No not really. Any particles in the oil cause wear, and those below 20 microns cause the most. A Fram representative on here noted that in general the worst were particles between 10 and 20 microns.
Several threads on this topic but here is one:
Microns. What's most damage inducing?
I've been on this site for quite a while, and I've seen this topic brought up from time to time but I haven't been able to find conclusive evidence. It's been a while since this was discussed (that I noticed) so I thought I'd bring this up again. What micron rating has been shown to cause the...
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K&N lags behind in efficiency, in exchange for air flow.
From a SWRI test
AEM Dryflow (which K&N owns the AEM filter brand)
AFE 72-series is a 7-layer cotton gauze (5-layers) & synthetic media (2 layers)
AFE 21-series is Dry filter
AirRaid is a cotton gauze/synthetic media layer blend.
Apparently everyone else knows how to make a non-cellulose air filter that can filter.
a K&N is equivalent to a Fram Extra Guard up to AEM's being a FE filter
In certain applications the K&N does offer more performance. However the guys that engineered them developed them for baja racing hence the quick cleaning and reusability.Years ago wasn’t K&N debunked (air filters) by some guy with expensive bench testing equipment? I was one of those who sought 2HP extra and thought it was a swindle
I am well aware of this info that's posted every single time someone here posts and says "I use a K&N". The air filter sub-forum is filled with it.
Obviously you don't get more flow without dropping filtering efficiency...."duh".
You said "Not everyone has the budget to constantly rebuild an engine after a short amount of hours on the engine."
Show me an engine that was prematurely sent to the junk yard that was hosed soley due to using one of these properly vs. a paper/OE filter in day to day use. I've used them on many different vehicles over many years and I'm still waiting to have issues and all of those reubilds as well as see high Si in my UOAs which never show up beyond that from sealant used repairs or the oil itself having elevated Si (HPL).
The MOFT in journal bearings is a lot less than the static clearance of the bearing. The journal in the bearing does not run in the perfect co-center with the bearing ... there is a thin oil wedge, which is the minimum oil film thickness (MOFT).
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I use K&N for engine and cabin. At a minimum, I'm locked in to the price I paid years ago. They've already paid for themselves. I can also virtue signal to people that I care about muh climate change.
You can get more flow and maintain efficiency if you can increase the filter's flow area.
I assumed most folks unerstood that you are usually working with a repalcement filter in these discussions and not something larger.
tellya one thing, when all is said and done, the difference in these arguments make no difference.
lets face it, most filters are in the 99% at 30 microns and that seems to be good enough.
since I dont know who manufactures KN or Supertech, its pretty hard to say if they are one and the same or even if it makes a friggin difference, but that difference explains the whole existence of this forum.
lets face it, most filters are in the 99% at 30 microns and that seems to be good enough.
since I dont know who manufactures KN or Supertech, its pretty hard to say if they are one and the same or even if it makes a friggin difference, but that difference explains the whole existence of this forum.
one should never assume anything. LOL. then again we could get 100% efficiency down to zero microns if we were willing to not be able to pump any lubricants thru a filter.
A drop-in replacement can be designed with more media if the engineer knows how to do it ... more pleats, deeper pleats in the same filter space can typically be done.
He's talking about air filters ... somehow the discussion got on the K&N air filter train, lol.
For oil filters, it depends on your OCI. The longer the OCI, the more a high efficiency oil filter will keep the oil cleaner for longer, which equates to less wear due to particulate in the oil.tellya one thing, when all is said and done, the difference in these arguments make no difference.
lets face it, most filters are in the 99% at 30 microns and that seems to be good enough.
of course it can, but I think the point of any of these parts is that they have to do a good enough job, while being easy to manufacture as well as being affordable enough to be price competitive knowing you cant satisfy everybody.
wouldn't you think a high efficiency filter would plug sooner, if it was more efficient? maybe you mean a higher capacity filter, not a higher efficiency filter.
Sure, but what I'm saying is an aftermarket air filter could be designed to flow more and still stay high efficiency if the desiger could put more media area in the same drop-in filter. It's possible to do for OEM filter boxes if the designer wanted to put more and deeper pleats in the stock sized L x W filter ... most air boxes will take longer pleats.
