Just spent over an hour poring over labels at walmart...

[sloinker]

Castrol Edge LL Advanced Synthetic is available online at Walmart for about $24.00 for a 5 qt. bottle. Most stores can have it for pickup in 2 days as well.

I've been following the M1 ESP 504/507 sales at NAPA. That is what I have been buying for most of the fleet recently. Not a Castrol fan. I will and have spent extra to Avoid their products. Thanks anyways..

 

[Blinker]

I just can’t picture someone standing in the oil aisle of Walmart for one hour staring at motor oil labels.

 

[bbslider001]

Oh boy, where do I start?

First of all, I ordered some Triax Power steering from Amazon back in November 2019 what was advertised and shown on the label as compatible with CHF 11S standard as that is what I needed at that time for my then owned Volkswagen Jetta.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07WHTFN7F/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

What I received had a different base label that did not mention or show any of those compatible standards as shown on the Amazon link. The bottle I did receive had a white sticker overlay with information stating what I was looking for and expecting to be in the bottle. The back label of the bottle also had another sticker over where the UPC code should have been. See the attached photos of the actual bottle.

Since the Amazon listing was a "Sold by Triax" and a "Shipped by Amazon" sale I had my doubts whether I had a counterfeit product or some other type buffoonery going on that made me suspect as to what was actually in the bottle.

I then used the Amazon seller link information and it listed a phone number of 214-897-6533 for Customer Service. I called it, someone answered and I explained the situation above and was told what I previously said that it was fine and they either had no labels yet or ran out. Did not catch a name.

https://www.amazon.com/sp?_encoding...otocol=current&seller=A1UZMJJOVEC3U&sshmPath=

The whole ordeal does not inspire confidence in the company as being a professional operation if everything corporate wise is smoke and mirrors that people are hiding behind. Hell even the API Licensing address Triax has on file with them comes up as a residential street address and not a corporate or commercial location.

https://engineoil.api.org/Directory/EolcsResultsDetail?accountId=-1&companyId=12586&resultsUrl=/Directory/EolcsResults?accountId=-1

I stand by my original opinion in that Triax comes off as shifty. Until they get their labeling and marketing to better reflect what they actually are, I will treat their products as suspect.

I can't disagree. That is pretty suspect. I just started using their 5w-40 diesel rated ESP for my 7.3.....but this is troubling. I guess I'll have to do more digging than I already have. I don't tend to believe hype. I started using this oil based on a couple of friends who have been using it for 3 years with good UOAs and better add packs than off the shelf diesel oils (MolyB and Boron). I know they are a small company with a small plant here in Texas, so I can see being "mom and pop" type of business, but they are supposedly military contracted and do mostly government sales. man the whole thing seems odd. I appreciate the heads up and the info. I'll report back with anything I come up with. Maybe I missed it, but why would they feel the need to relabel a bottle that already has their insignia on it?

 

[bbslider001]

I just went to their web site to see what is Triax.
Their Euro line of oils is full of compatibility but does not have single approval.
VW etc. have approval process that sets up minimum requirements. If their product exceeds those requirements, by definition oil can be approved. It is not.
Also, their 0W40 oil that surpasses MB 229.51 is stating this:
SURPASSES OEM FACTORY FLUID PERFORMANCE: Performs better than top branded products including the OEM factory oil for VW and Mercedes Benz under specifications 507.00 and MB 229.51, with respect wear performance and sludge.

How did they achieve better performance in 0W40 grade than 507.00 when VW504.00/507.00 specification ONLY covers 0W30 and 5W30 oils? Same language is for 5W40 oils.

So, explain how that is not nonsense?

IMO, snake oil sellers.

I don't know how to explain it. That is why I am here doing research. I am a little bothered by the findings, but I'll keep looking and hopefully find some good answers.

 

[bbslider001]

Ok, so this is the most recent email my buddy sent over to them and got a response. I'll copy and paste here, not that it makes much of a difference. It explains part of the reason for not getting Ford's approval anyways. Enjoy.

Hello,

I am curious about the specs for your 5w-40/15w-40 oils in a 7.3 powerstroke application. I see that the Fleet Ultra claims the Ford spec, but Ford does not have that on their approved oils listing as of this year. I know Ford is concerned about the lack of Phos/Zinc in the oil, and the 5w-40 Fleet supreme shows under 1000ppm for both zinc and phos.

What is in the additive package that makes up for the lack of zinc/phos? Are the Triax oils going to show up on the Ford approved oil listing any time in the future?

Hello Jake,

Our Fleet Supreme and Fleet Ultra oils perform absolutely superbly in all powerstroke applications. The data on the zinc at 800 is old, the current zinc level is about 1100-1200, also about 150 ppm molybdenum carbonate and 400 + ppm nanoboron. Those last two are what significantly changes the performance and makes our oils perform the way they do. This is a significantly boosted and improved additive pack vs anything else on the market. Hands down no competition.

Claiming a spec is normal, we basically are guaranteeing specification. In this case, the Ford Spec requires a API CJ-4 / CK-4 compliant oil. That's it. Nothing special about it. The ford specs are basically clones of the API Specs, no difference.

To get approved by Ford one needs two things:

1. Use a standard, unmodified additive pack, which is readily available for purchase on the market. Almost everyone uses one of 3 additive packs (Shell, chevron, mobil, shaffers, amsoil etc)
2. Pay Ford a "license" fee of 500K USD one time and then a % of every gallon of oil you make with their approval on it. If you want Ford to license your own additive pack, you need to pay them over 1 million USD fee + % of every gallon made. As a manufacturer you become a permanent cash cow for Ford.

Needless to say we are not going to be doing this. Not ever. We have modified our additive packs to offer substantially improved parameters on every level (no, Ford doesn't care). Better oxidation, better frictional properties, etc. Basically our oils are like a Hennessey Mustang vs a stock Mustang. Some people want that stock car, most do not however, when given a choice.

We do have a great many API licensed products, it took 5 years to get the approvals because they are all modified.

Also - for your reference, look here: https://online.lubrizol.com/relperftool/hd.html - this will give you a good idea of what the specs are and the level of protection for each. The absolute best diesel HD spec, with the highest required protection level is the Volvo VDS 4.5. You can never go wrong with an oil that meets this for any Powerstroke.

Maybe I rambled too much but I hope it helps you.

Thank you
George Visan
Triax Tech Services

 

[ZZman]

I wonder if an engine would fail if you didn't use an "approved" oil? What is it about the 504/507 that is so unique?

 

[GSCJR]

Lower viscosity and low SAPS, I think.

 

[kschachn]

Lower viscosity and low SAPS, I think.

Yes there are grade restrictions on 504/507 oils (compared to 502 00 for example) but the minimum HT/HS is still 3.5 so grade is really irrelevant.

504/507 and 502 00 have the same SAPS limit. The Noack limit is slightly different and 504/507 have no minimum TBN (plus some shear stability and phosphorus limit differences).

 

[edyvw]

I wonder if an engine would fail if you didn't use an "approved" oil? What is it about the 504/507 that is so unique?

VW 504.00/507.00 oils have most stringent wear requirements for 0/5W30 oils. Also have stringent deposit, oxidation and emission system requirements. These are approvals for VW/Audi, Bentley, Porsche etc. cars.
Approval for oils by VW costs around $4,000. WHen company states "exceed," "meets" etc. but does not have approval, what is says is that it is not that they do not have $4,000, but that their oil in reality cannot pass approval process.

 

[edyvw]

Yes there are grade restrictions on 504/507 oils (compared to 502 00 for example) but the minimum HT/HS is still 3.5 so grade is really irrelevant.

504/507 and 502 00 have the same SAPS limit. The Noack limit is slightly different and 504/507 have no minimum TBN (plus some shear stability and phosphorus limit differences).

But, 504.00/507.00 has much, much more stringent emission system protection requirements so it dramatically limits SAPS level.

 

[kschachn]

But, 504.00/507.00 has much, much more stringent emission system protection requirements so it dramatically limits SAPS level.

Why wouldn't they reflect that in the SAPS level limit then? 501 01, 502 00, 504 00 and 507 00 all have the same SAPS limit of 1.5%. I agree that many 504 00 oils (all the ones I've seen) are below 1% (actually 0.8% or lower) but how does that work?

 

[Jimmy_Russells]

Why wouldn't they reflect that in the SAPS level limit then? 501 01, 502 00, 504 00 and 507 00 all have the same SAPS limit of 1.5%. I agree that many 504 00 oils (all the ones I've seen) are below 1% (actually 0.8% or lower) but how does that work?

Doesn't C3 have a limit of .8?

 

[kschachn]

Doesn't C3 have a limit of .8?

Ahha so it is a concurrent requirement that limits the ash below the VW requirement?

Yes C3 has a limit of 0.8.

 

[edyvw]

Why wouldn't they reflect that in the SAPS level limit then? 501 01, 502 00, 504 00 and 507 00 all have the same SAPS limit of 1.5%. I agree that many 504 00 oils (all the ones I've seen) are below 1% (actually 0.8% or lower) but how does that work?

I have not seen VW504.00/507.00 with SA above 0.8%. Higher SA level would not meet DPF compatibility.
WHy they limit on paper to 1.5%? Not sure. Potential flexibility in case oil can meet DPF compatibility but I cannot see how.

 

[kschachn]

I have not seen VW504.00/507.00 with SA above 0.8%. Higher SA level would not meet DPF compatibility.
WHy they limit on paper to 1.5%? Not sure. Potential flexibility in case oil can meet DPF compatibility but I cannot see how.

Have you seen the SA level of a 504/507 oil that isn't also C3? If such a thing even exists.

 

[edyvw]

Have you seen the SA level of a 504/507 oil that isn't also C3? If such a thing even exists.

I have never seen it that it is not C3.
But, it does not have to be C3. I just never seen it.

 

[KCJeep]

I thought 504 was mid saps.

 

[wemay]

I thought 504 was mid saps.

 

[bbslider001]

I just can’t picture someone standing in the oil aisle of Walmart for one hour staring at motor oil labels.

We are not all the same. Some of us like to know what's going in our vehicle. This is a motor oil forum after all.

 

[Blinker]

We are not all the same. Some of us like to know what's going in our vehicle. This is a motor oil forum after all.

Suit yourself!