Just spent over an hour poring over labels at walmart...

[edyvw]

I've had flat tappet motors over the years with aggressive cams and valve springs. They had to have plenty of ZDDP to survive, sometimes approaching 2000 ppm. In the modern vehicles that I service that have long tricky timing chain paths I am weighing using higher than recommended ZDDP for their known wear issues. What cost's more to replace/repair. Timing chains/guides or catalytic converter? I need to do that research.

What makes you think it will fail? That is what approvals are for. Today when timing chain/guides fail it is not oil, it is inherent design problem.
For example, timing chain on my BMW is not an issue, but Bank1 and Bank2 cat converters are around $1,400 each.
On EA888 first generation timing chain guides were an issue, and there was no oil that would help other than updated timing chain tensioner and guides.

 

[sloinker]

My partner at work has an ecoboost that is going to need chain/guide replacement at 130k miles. He has utilized the dealer and interval for all of his maintenance. They are quoting a number that is mind boggling to me. His research revealed that it is common and thought of as almost routine by Ford, the contention being 130k miles is pretty decent before having to have this done. I don't know for sure but maybe BMW cats are pricier than most vehicles? I see many popular applications that run around $300 for federal compliant third party manufacturers. Like I said, I will research it.

 

[edyvw]

My partner at work has an ecoboost that is going to need chain/guide replacement at 130k miles. He has utilized the dealer and interval for all of his maintenance. They are quoting a number that is mind boggling to me. His research revealed that it is common and thought of as almost routine by Ford, the contention being 130k miles is pretty decent before having to have this done. I don't know for sure but maybe BMW cats are pricier than most vehicles? I see many popular applications that run around $300 for federal compliant third party manufacturers. Like I said, I will research it.

Yeah, aftermarket cat's are not some happiness.
But, put that on a side, Redline is very good oil. My point was, is it best, and how you know it? Just bcs. they say?

 

[Bonz]

Incorrect I do not believe that is accurate. Phosphorus is the limiting factor. Look at SN specifications. To my knowledge there is no published number for zinc. Only phosphorus.

 

[sloinker]

Yeah, aftermarket cat's are not some happiness.
But, put that on a side, Redline is very good oil. My point was, is it best, and how you know it? Just bcs. they say?

I actually haven't personally came across a vehicle with a poisoned cat due to the wrong oil. I have heard of cat failures on oil burners and high mileage but never due to incorrect oil. Anyone have any direct knowledge of this type of failure?

 

[edyvw]

Incorrect I do not believe that is accurate. Phosphorus is the limiting factor. Look at SN specifications. To my knowledge there is no published number for zinc. Only phosphorus.

I think limit is 900, I went through all Mobil1 W30 oils and all SN and above are limited to 900.

 

[edyvw]

I actually haven't personally came across a vehicle with a poisoned cat due to the wrong oil. I have heard of cat failures on oil burners and high mileage but never due to incorrect oil. Anyone have any direct knowledge of this type of failure?

So what is the problem than getting approval. Too good to bother with it?

 

[Bonz]

I think limit is 900, I went through all Mobil1 W30 oils and all SN and above are limited to 900.

Good post, (I believe) they are balancing the zinc and phosphorus numbers as that is desirable to do from a performance standpoint. That is what M1 is choosing to put in their oil, not necessarily what API requires to meet the spec. However when reading the fine print, I’m simply saying I do not see an upper limit on zinc looking at API requirements. If there is something specifically stating 900 ppm for the upper limit on zinc, I haven’t found it. But I have found that phosphorus is specifically limited.

 

[sloinker]

So what is the problem than getting approval. Too good to bother with it?

I think you are probably right in that their add pack may exceed acceptable limits but they think their formulation is actually better than what is allowed. Just a guess.

 

[Hootbro]

BTW, some months back I tried ordering some 504/507 bargain priced oil from Triax via Amazon a couple times. They substituted 502 both times and their price has gone up since then. I also chased a couple remarkable deals for Motul, 4-5L jugs that turned into 1-5L jug, twice! Only to have been baited and switched, also via Amazon. I recently got baited and switched by ECS tuning via Amazon where the picture of the 100% synthetic Vaico magically turned into semi-synthetic at my doorstep. I used to be a regular customer of ECS but no longer. Amazon has lost the handle on its 3rd party vendors. It is a hassle and a waste of my time returning oil. Hence my interest in walmart and other local retailers.

Triax is a shifty company I would avoid. They play pretty loose with their product descriptions and anything outside a API spec. They like to use the word "compatible" a lot without any of the certifications.

I bought through Amazon some Triax power steering fluid for my then VW Jetta that was suppose to be "compatible'. Received some other quart container that was labeled with some Asian Spec fluid and then had a office computer generated white label thrown over the main bottle label with the info I was looking in the VW fluids I was expecting to buy. Called Triax directly trying to verify if I had the correct fluid and they admitted to the relabeling of the bottle because they ran out of correctly labeled bottles. That company does not inspire confidence in their products.

 

[KCJeep]

That is just fraudulent. Ridiculous.

 

[wemay]

That is pretty outrageous.

 

[kschachn]

Triax is a shifty company I would avoid. They play pretty loose with their product descriptions and anything outside a API spec. They like to use the word "compatible" a lot without any of the certifications.

I bought through Amazon some Triax power steering fluid for my then VW Jetta that was suppose to be "compatible'. Received some other quart container that was labeled with some Asian Spec fluid and then had a office computer generated white label thrown over the main bottle label with the info I was looking in the VW fluids I was expecting to buy. Called Triax directly trying to verify if I had the correct fluid and they admitted to the relabeling of the bottle because they ran out of correctly labeled bottles. That company does not inspire confidence in their products.

Which I attempted to point out to the OP a few posts back. That company seems to be full of nonsense when it comes to approvals and certifications.

 

[bbslider001]

Triax is a shifty company I would avoid. They play pretty loose with their product descriptions and anything outside a API spec. They like to use the word "compatible" a lot without any of the certifications.

I bought through Amazon some Triax power steering fluid for my then VW Jetta that was suppose to be "compatible'. Received some other quart container that was labeled with some Asian Spec fluid and then had a office computer generated white label thrown over the main bottle label with the info I was looking in the VW fluids I was expecting to buy. Called Triax directly trying to verify if I had the correct fluid and they admitted to the relabeling of the bottle because they ran out of correctly labeled bottles. That company does not inspire confidence in their products.

I find this VERY hard to believe for the simple reason that there is no phone number to contact them. I cannot imagine that you spoke to George on the phone at Triax and he told you "oh we ran out of stock so we re-labeled it". I'll ask him when I hear back from him on another matter. Hopefully he tells me different. if not, I will report back.

 

[bbslider001]

Which I attempted to point out to the OP a few posts back. That company seems to be full of nonsense when it comes to approvals and certifications.

How so? That is a blanket statement to just throw out there. Explain.

 

[bbslider001]

Triax is a shifty company I would avoid. They play pretty loose with their product descriptions and anything outside a API spec. They like to use the word "compatible" a lot without any of the certifications.

I bought through Amazon some Triax power steering fluid for my then VW Jetta that was suppose to be "compatible'. Received some other quart container that was labeled with some Asian Spec fluid and then had a office computer generated white label thrown over the main bottle label with the info I was looking in the VW fluids I was expecting to buy. Called Triax directly trying to verify if I had the correct fluid and they admitted to the relabeling of the bottle because they ran out of correctly labeled bottles. That company does not inspire confidence in their products.

If you would, please provide a phone number and name of the person you talked to. Seems none of us can find a phone number and we would LOVE to be able to contact them with questions.

 

[edyvw]

How so? That is a blanket statement to just throw out there. Explain.

I just went to their web site to see what is Triax.
Their Euro line of oils is full of compatibility but does not have single approval.
VW etc. have approval process that sets up minimum requirements. If their product exceeds those requirements, by definition oil can be approved. It is not.
Also, their 0W40 oil that surpasses MB 229.51 is stating this:
SURPASSES OEM FACTORY FLUID PERFORMANCE: Performs better than top branded products including the OEM factory oil for VW and Mercedes Benz under specifications 507.00 and MB 229.51, with respect wear performance and sludge.

How did they achieve better performance in 0W40 grade than 507.00 when VW504.00/507.00 specification ONLY covers 0W30 and 5W30 oils? Same language is for 5W40 oils.

So, explain how that is not nonsense?

IMO, snake oil sellers.

 

[Hootbro]

I find this VERY hard to believe for the simple reason that there is no phone number to contact them. I cannot imagine that you spoke to George on the phone at Triax and he told you "oh we ran out of stock so we re-labeled it". I'll ask him when I hear back from him on another matter. Hopefully he tells me different. if not, I will report back.

Oh boy, where do I start?

First of all, I ordered some Triax Power steering from Amazon back in November 2019 what was advertised and shown on the label as compatible with CHF 11S standard as that is what I needed at that time for my then owned Volkswagen Jetta.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07WHTFN7F/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

What I received had a different base label that did not mention or show any of those compatible standards as shown on the Amazon link. The bottle I did receive had a white sticker overlay with information stating what I was looking for and expecting to be in the bottle. The back label of the bottle also had another sticker over where the UPC code should have been. See the attached photos of the actual bottle.

Since the Amazon listing was a "Sold by Triax" and a "Shipped by Amazon" sale I had my doubts whether I had a counterfeit product or some other type buffoonery going on that made me suspect as to what was actually in the bottle.

I then used the Amazon seller link information and it listed a phone number of 214-897-6533 for Customer Service. I called it, someone answered and I explained the situation above and was told what I previously said that it was fine and they either had no labels yet or ran out. Did not catch a name.

https://www.amazon.com/sp?_encoding...otocol=current&seller=A1UZMJJOVEC3U&sshmPath=

The whole ordeal does not inspire confidence in the company as being a professional operation if everything corporate wise is smoke and mirrors that people are hiding behind. Hell even the API Licensing address Triax has on file with them comes up as a residential street address and not a corporate or commercial location.

https://engineoil.api.org/Directory/EolcsResultsDetail?accountId=-1&companyId=12586&resultsUrl=/Directory/EolcsResults?accountId=-1

I stand by my original opinion in that Triax comes off as shifty. Until they get their labeling and marketing to better reflect what they actually are, I will treat their products as suspect.

 

[GaryMX5]

So I guess that leads to the my next question. Who has the cheapest 504/507 available?

Castrol Edge LL Advanced Synthetic is available online at Walmart for about $24.00 for a 5 qt. bottle. Most stores can have it for pickup in 2 days as well.

 

[kschachn]

How so? That is a blanket statement to just throw out there. Explain.

I think others have already answered your question, but all you have to do is try and confirm some of the approvals they list. There’s a lot of imagination going on with this company.