Here is one more "You Meet the Nicest People on a Honda"
Warning MIGHT BE "NSFW"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTD_BDQFltY
ROD
Warning MIGHT BE "NSFW"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTD_BDQFltY
ROD
Japan taking over the motorcycle industry
- Thread starter ledslinger
- Start date
- Status
Great video, ABS was a requirement for my new bike purchase back in 2014 I would not have bought the bike without it. Much like I and my passenger are not required to wear a helmet in my state but we both wear 3/4 helmets.
I have no problem with people who dont want ABS, I have no problem with people who do not wear helmets. I dont impose my beliefs on anyone, as if we really wanted to be safe, we wouldnt ride motorcycles. For me and my wife personally we love bikes, all kinds but I also like to do what I can to enjoy them and be as safe as practical without imposing on my enjoyment.
ABS was just as important of my other criteria and that was a 6 speed transmission as the two biggest wants over my at the time vstar 1300 and one of a few reasons for the 2014 Road King. The Vstar 1300 was an AWESOME bike, would recommend it to anyone, mine, an 08 was getting tired for me and the Road King was just another step up for us and a new bike.
I only truly tested the ABS system one time in an emergency stop that I know of. Ironically, it was the day we bought the Road King back in August of 2014, riding home from TN to SC on i26, traffic came to a screeching halt, I already had a plan in my head to go to the center divider near the guard rail if I couldnt stop in time OR if the car behind me looked like he wasnt going to stop. Anyway, man, I hit the brakes hard without thinking and looking to the side of the cars in front of me where I could safely pull off to avoid hitting the car in front of me or someone from behind hitting me.
Anyway, hit the brakes, wasnt even a thought, I was like wow!, [censored] tires let out a small chirp and we stopped in seconds from what must have been 70 MPH. I was sold.
Emergency stops on my non ABS, always had to be mindful not to hit the rear to hard or the rear starts to slide out, etc, etc
With the Road Kings linked ABS, doesnt matter if you hit the front brake, back brake, both brakes, any brake, the computer takes over and does what it needs to do and can do so in miliseconds much faster then my brain, it also allows me to focus on other aspects of avoiding whatever I am trying to avoid, leave the steering to me and the control of the front and rear brakes to the computer.
Pretty wild stuff and the option is not all that much money, heck, some guys spend that on expensive helmets.
Again, no debate if people want it or not, that is a personal decision, I am just writing on why it was a must have for us.
I have no problem with people who dont want ABS, I have no problem with people who do not wear helmets. I dont impose my beliefs on anyone, as if we really wanted to be safe, we wouldnt ride motorcycles. For me and my wife personally we love bikes, all kinds but I also like to do what I can to enjoy them and be as safe as practical without imposing on my enjoyment.
ABS was just as important of my other criteria and that was a 6 speed transmission as the two biggest wants over my at the time vstar 1300 and one of a few reasons for the 2014 Road King. The Vstar 1300 was an AWESOME bike, would recommend it to anyone, mine, an 08 was getting tired for me and the Road King was just another step up for us and a new bike.
I only truly tested the ABS system one time in an emergency stop that I know of. Ironically, it was the day we bought the Road King back in August of 2014, riding home from TN to SC on i26, traffic came to a screeching halt, I already had a plan in my head to go to the center divider near the guard rail if I couldnt stop in time OR if the car behind me looked like he wasnt going to stop. Anyway, man, I hit the brakes hard without thinking and looking to the side of the cars in front of me where I could safely pull off to avoid hitting the car in front of me or someone from behind hitting me.
Anyway, hit the brakes, wasnt even a thought, I was like wow!, [censored] tires let out a small chirp and we stopped in seconds from what must have been 70 MPH. I was sold.
Emergency stops on my non ABS, always had to be mindful not to hit the rear to hard or the rear starts to slide out, etc, etc
With the Road Kings linked ABS, doesnt matter if you hit the front brake, back brake, both brakes, any brake, the computer takes over and does what it needs to do and can do so in miliseconds much faster then my brain, it also allows me to focus on other aspects of avoiding whatever I am trying to avoid, leave the steering to me and the control of the front and rear brakes to the computer.
Pretty wild stuff and the option is not all that much money, heck, some guys spend that on expensive helmets.
Again, no debate if people want it or not, that is a personal decision, I am just writing on why it was a must have for us.
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ABS is a must-have for me too. Wouldn't buy a new bike without it.
Originally Posted By: dr2152
Originally Posted By: DriveHard
I can't find any official statement from Harley stating why they have the rear cylinder de-activation other than for rider comfort, but I do suspect that they would not purposefully publish that it is needed to not cook an engine. I do know that I found an article published by Popular Mechanics that specifically states the purpose of the rear cylinder de-activation is to keep from cooking the engine.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/motorcycles/a11811/harley-davidson-rear-cylinder-cutout/
Harley-Davidson's air-cooled V-Twin remains a stubbornly anachronistic signature of the American motorcycle manufacturer, and its most potent expression comes in the form of the 110 cubic inch (1,803cc) Screamin' Eagle lump currently found in the CVO lineup. Producing 122 lb-ft of torque, this is the most powerful Harley engine to date; as such, an oil cooler can only go so in protecting this puppy from soaring temps.
How does Harley keep this mill from melting when mercury hits triple digits? One feature engineered into air-cooled Harley engines is a function called Rear Cylinder Cutout. Because the aft cylinder tends to run warmer since it doesn't benefit from the airflow that hits the front cylinder, RCC seeks to equalize the difference by shutting off fuel and spark to the back cylinder if the engine idles for more than 3 seconds above 288° F. Once the air-only mix drops the combustion chamber temperature to 275° F, normal operation resumes. RCC was introduced in 2008, and was actuated by a cable before the 2009 model year, when throttle-by-wire technology was introduced.
While automotive applications frequently implement cylinder deactivation for MPG improvements, we won't hold our breath for that functionality to be applied to bikes; after all, motorcyclists are usually more interested in staying cool than saving fuel.
EITMS is purely for rider comfort. When it
activates and “shuts off” the rear cylinder, it’s
not because the motor is overheating. It’s
designed to reduce the heat radiating from
the rear cylinder to the rider.
You can say that, but I can't find any proof. Just some other thoughts on the subject. I was an owner of a Buell XB12XT...which many know is basically the same design as a single pin crank Harley V2. Buell found it very necessary to add auxiliary cooling fans, and air scoops to keep the rear cylinder cool. They would also leave the fan on during any low speed riding, and when the bike was switched off to keep from cooking the rear cylinder. They also had an additional rider comfort kit that added another air scoop, and additional heat insulation. I realize the Buell engine was tuned for slightly more specific output, but if Buell felt it was necessary to add all the cost and complexity to keep the rear cylinder healthy, how come Harley feels it is not necessary?
Originally Posted By: DriveHard
I can't find any official statement from Harley stating why they have the rear cylinder de-activation other than for rider comfort, but I do suspect that they would not purposefully publish that it is needed to not cook an engine. I do know that I found an article published by Popular Mechanics that specifically states the purpose of the rear cylinder de-activation is to keep from cooking the engine.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/motorcycles/a11811/harley-davidson-rear-cylinder-cutout/
Harley-Davidson's air-cooled V-Twin remains a stubbornly anachronistic signature of the American motorcycle manufacturer, and its most potent expression comes in the form of the 110 cubic inch (1,803cc) Screamin' Eagle lump currently found in the CVO lineup. Producing 122 lb-ft of torque, this is the most powerful Harley engine to date; as such, an oil cooler can only go so in protecting this puppy from soaring temps.
How does Harley keep this mill from melting when mercury hits triple digits? One feature engineered into air-cooled Harley engines is a function called Rear Cylinder Cutout. Because the aft cylinder tends to run warmer since it doesn't benefit from the airflow that hits the front cylinder, RCC seeks to equalize the difference by shutting off fuel and spark to the back cylinder if the engine idles for more than 3 seconds above 288° F. Once the air-only mix drops the combustion chamber temperature to 275° F, normal operation resumes. RCC was introduced in 2008, and was actuated by a cable before the 2009 model year, when throttle-by-wire technology was introduced.
While automotive applications frequently implement cylinder deactivation for MPG improvements, we won't hold our breath for that functionality to be applied to bikes; after all, motorcyclists are usually more interested in staying cool than saving fuel.
EITMS is purely for rider comfort. When it
activates and “shuts off” the rear cylinder, it’s
not because the motor is overheating. It’s
designed to reduce the heat radiating from
the rear cylinder to the rider.
You can say that, but I can't find any proof. Just some other thoughts on the subject. I was an owner of a Buell XB12XT...which many know is basically the same design as a single pin crank Harley V2. Buell found it very necessary to add auxiliary cooling fans, and air scoops to keep the rear cylinder cool. They would also leave the fan on during any low speed riding, and when the bike was switched off to keep from cooking the rear cylinder. They also had an additional rider comfort kit that added another air scoop, and additional heat insulation. I realize the Buell engine was tuned for slightly more specific output, but if Buell felt it was necessary to add all the cost and complexity to keep the rear cylinder healthy, how come Harley feels it is not necessary?
Originally Posted By: DriveHard
Originally Posted By: dr2152
Originally Posted By: DriveHard
I can't find any official statement from Harley stating why they have the rear cylinder de-activation other than for rider comfort, but I do suspect that they would not purposefully publish that it is needed to not cook an engine. I do know that I found an article published by Popular Mechanics that specifically states the purpose of the rear cylinder de-activation is to keep from cooking the engine.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/motorcycles/a11811/harley-davidson-rear-cylinder-cutout/
Harley-Davidson's air-cooled V-Twin remains a stubbornly anachronistic signature of the American motorcycle manufacturer, and its most potent expression comes in the form of the 110 cubic inch (1,803cc) Screamin' Eagle lump currently found in the CVO lineup. Producing 122 lb-ft of torque, this is the most powerful Harley engine to date; as such, an oil cooler can only go so in protecting this puppy from soaring temps.
How does Harley keep this mill from melting when mercury hits triple digits? One feature engineered into air-cooled Harley engines is a function called Rear Cylinder Cutout. Because the aft cylinder tends to run warmer since it doesn't benefit from the airflow that hits the front cylinder, RCC seeks to equalize the difference by shutting off fuel and spark to the back cylinder if the engine idles for more than 3 seconds above 288° F. Once the air-only mix drops the combustion chamber temperature to 275° F, normal operation resumes. RCC was introduced in 2008, and was actuated by a cable before the 2009 model year, when throttle-by-wire technology was introduced.
While automotive applications frequently implement cylinder deactivation for MPG improvements, we won't hold our breath for that functionality to be applied to bikes; after all, motorcyclists are usually more interested in staying cool than saving fuel.
EITMS is purely for rider comfort. When it
activates and “shuts off” the rear cylinder, it’s
not because the motor is overheating. It’s
designed to reduce the heat radiating from
the rear cylinder to the rider.
You can say that, but I can't find any proof. Just some other thoughts on the subject. I was an owner of a Buell XB12XT...which many know is basically the same design as a single pin crank Harley V2. Buell found it very necessary to add auxiliary cooling fans, and air scoops to keep the rear cylinder cool. They would also leave the fan on during any low speed riding, and when the bike was switched off to keep from cooking the rear cylinder. They also had an additional rider comfort kit that added another air scoop, and additional heat insulation. I realize the Buell engine was tuned for slightly more specific output, but if Buell felt it was necessary to add all the cost and complexity to keep the rear cylinder healthy, how come Harley feels it is not necessary?
I would guess it's because the hp is almost 40% greater, the engine is higher in the frame, sport fairing? The engine is not exposed so you would need fans to get the cooling air to the engine. The quote I posted came from the Harley website. I don't know of one person that has "cooked a rear cylinder". A friend has been working on them for 30 years and he has not seen the problem.
Originally Posted By: dr2152
Originally Posted By: DriveHard
I can't find any official statement from Harley stating why they have the rear cylinder de-activation other than for rider comfort, but I do suspect that they would not purposefully publish that it is needed to not cook an engine. I do know that I found an article published by Popular Mechanics that specifically states the purpose of the rear cylinder de-activation is to keep from cooking the engine.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/motorcycles/a11811/harley-davidson-rear-cylinder-cutout/
Harley-Davidson's air-cooled V-Twin remains a stubbornly anachronistic signature of the American motorcycle manufacturer, and its most potent expression comes in the form of the 110 cubic inch (1,803cc) Screamin' Eagle lump currently found in the CVO lineup. Producing 122 lb-ft of torque, this is the most powerful Harley engine to date; as such, an oil cooler can only go so in protecting this puppy from soaring temps.
How does Harley keep this mill from melting when mercury hits triple digits? One feature engineered into air-cooled Harley engines is a function called Rear Cylinder Cutout. Because the aft cylinder tends to run warmer since it doesn't benefit from the airflow that hits the front cylinder, RCC seeks to equalize the difference by shutting off fuel and spark to the back cylinder if the engine idles for more than 3 seconds above 288° F. Once the air-only mix drops the combustion chamber temperature to 275° F, normal operation resumes. RCC was introduced in 2008, and was actuated by a cable before the 2009 model year, when throttle-by-wire technology was introduced.
While automotive applications frequently implement cylinder deactivation for MPG improvements, we won't hold our breath for that functionality to be applied to bikes; after all, motorcyclists are usually more interested in staying cool than saving fuel.
EITMS is purely for rider comfort. When it
activates and “shuts off” the rear cylinder, it’s
not because the motor is overheating. It’s
designed to reduce the heat radiating from
the rear cylinder to the rider.
You can say that, but I can't find any proof. Just some other thoughts on the subject. I was an owner of a Buell XB12XT...which many know is basically the same design as a single pin crank Harley V2. Buell found it very necessary to add auxiliary cooling fans, and air scoops to keep the rear cylinder cool. They would also leave the fan on during any low speed riding, and when the bike was switched off to keep from cooking the rear cylinder. They also had an additional rider comfort kit that added another air scoop, and additional heat insulation. I realize the Buell engine was tuned for slightly more specific output, but if Buell felt it was necessary to add all the cost and complexity to keep the rear cylinder healthy, how come Harley feels it is not necessary?
I would guess it's because the hp is almost 40% greater, the engine is higher in the frame, sport fairing? The engine is not exposed so you would need fans to get the cooling air to the engine. The quote I posted came from the Harley website. I don't know of one person that has "cooked a rear cylinder". A friend has been working on them for 30 years and he has not seen the problem.
The only Harley engines I know that could cook themselves were ironhead sportsters. Especially if someone put straight pipes on them and did not richen the air fuel mixture creating a lean burn state that would cause them all sorts of problems.
Originally Posted By: DriveHard
... if Buell felt it was necessary to add all the cost and complexity to keep the rear cylinder healthy, how come Harley feels it is not necessary?
I guess the answer would be the same as all the other motorcycle manufacturers. They know more about their engines then we do.
Lets be clear, HD sells more over 600 cc motorcycles in the United States then every other motorcycle maker combined. SO I guess its easy to question Harley or Bash Harley bikes. Some people do not like winners of any product line, they think over 50% of the population must be crazy and the other 25% who wish they could afford one. (im not saying you!)
Bottom line is, Harley Engines dont melt, if they did, they, to this day, would not be selling more bikes then everyone else combined.
But what I find most interesting is some people knock the
ld" design of the engine. Yet the engine is the most popular engine of all time for the vast majority of bike riders.
Furthermore, for some reason, only air cooled Harley is bashed and never the air cooled Polaris brands Indian and Victory, Never the Metric big air cooled Vtwins from Yamaha and Suzuki, the only big vtwin liquid cooled came from Kawaski, and wow, go back and read the reviews from those 7 years or so ago. The complaints about heat on the water cooled Kawasaki forced Kawaski to offer a retro fit kit to change air flow.
1. Bottom line is, the public DEMANDS the big twin engines and Harley delivers in spades.
2. Polaris is trying to eat into Harley but has FAILED big time with the Victory name as over the last decade Victory only made money ONE year and now trying with the Indian name. Its nice when your only brand isnt motorcycles, over 85% of Polaris sales comes from things other then motorcycles and those other things make them money. Not the motorcycles.
3. The Japanese have just about now COMPLETELY abandoned trying to sell the big vtwins in the USA, their decades long attempt to overtake Harley has failed in the worst way and very costly to them. The last few years they have SLASHED their line up, gee, wonder where that leaves the resale value for those owners. AS Americans we should be PROUD Harley delivered a superior product the Japanese could not improve on.
BTW - as I type this, just yesterday, the Bank of Japan has pretty much announced complete and total failure of their polices. Its spreading around the world and its almost completely on our shores now. Better stop letting government borrow money. Japan just tried negative interest rates, that is correct, banks charging lenders/businesses interest for keeping money in the bank instead of lending it.
... if Buell felt it was necessary to add all the cost and complexity to keep the rear cylinder healthy, how come Harley feels it is not necessary?
I guess the answer would be the same as all the other motorcycle manufacturers. They know more about their engines then we do.
Lets be clear, HD sells more over 600 cc motorcycles in the United States then every other motorcycle maker combined. SO I guess its easy to question Harley or Bash Harley bikes. Some people do not like winners of any product line, they think over 50% of the population must be crazy and the other 25% who wish they could afford one. (im not saying you!)
Bottom line is, Harley Engines dont melt, if they did, they, to this day, would not be selling more bikes then everyone else combined.
But what I find most interesting is some people knock the
ld" design of the engine. Yet the engine is the most popular engine of all time for the vast majority of bike riders.Furthermore, for some reason, only air cooled Harley is bashed and never the air cooled Polaris brands Indian and Victory, Never the Metric big air cooled Vtwins from Yamaha and Suzuki, the only big vtwin liquid cooled came from Kawaski, and wow, go back and read the reviews from those 7 years or so ago. The complaints about heat on the water cooled Kawasaki forced Kawaski to offer a retro fit kit to change air flow.
1. Bottom line is, the public DEMANDS the big twin engines and Harley delivers in spades.
2. Polaris is trying to eat into Harley but has FAILED big time with the Victory name as over the last decade Victory only made money ONE year and now trying with the Indian name. Its nice when your only brand isnt motorcycles, over 85% of Polaris sales comes from things other then motorcycles and those other things make them money. Not the motorcycles.
3. The Japanese have just about now COMPLETELY abandoned trying to sell the big vtwins in the USA, their decades long attempt to overtake Harley has failed in the worst way and very costly to them. The last few years they have SLASHED their line up, gee, wonder where that leaves the resale value for those owners. AS Americans we should be PROUD Harley delivered a superior product the Japanese could not improve on.
BTW - as I type this, just yesterday, the Bank of Japan has pretty much announced complete and total failure of their polices. Its spreading around the world and its almost completely on our shores now. Better stop letting government borrow money. Japan just tried negative interest rates, that is correct, banks charging lenders/businesses interest for keeping money in the bank instead of lending it.
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Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
How many times has the engine been overhauled? You can go 500,000 miles on a Chinese 50cc scooter if you keep rebuilding it!
Kind of like the famous 3 million mile Volvo...it didn't get there without some rebuilds, although I think it made it over 600k before the first one.
How many times has the engine been overhauled? You can go 500,000 miles on a Chinese 50cc scooter if you keep rebuilding it!
Kind of like the famous 3 million mile Volvo...it didn't get there without some rebuilds, although I think it made it over 600k before the first one.
The link was for people to see what a 'real' motorcycle lover looks like. Not about what he rides. I have ridden with David Willett several times over the years, and he lives in the same town I live in. He also has a Suzuki Burgman with over 160,000 miles and a Honda Goldwing with a couple hundred thousand miles on it, as of 2014. I'm sure most everything on 'old Charlie' was replaced at least once, but again the link was intended to be about a motorcycle lover, and not a brand specific poser.
Originally Posted By: gman2304
The link was for people to see what a 'real' motorcycle lover looks like. Not about what he rides. I have ridden with David Willett several times over the years, and he lives in the same town I live in. He also has a Suzuki Burgman with over 160,000 miles and a Honda Goldwing with a couple hundred thousand miles on it, as of 2014. I'm sure most everything on 'old Charlie' was replaced at least once, but again the link was intended to be about a motorcycle lover, and not a brand specific poser.
I too like all bikes. I said it a million times. To me personally, being in forums for a few years now and also owning two metrics before the current road king.
My feelings are I see more Harley bashing from metric owners. Whenever a bike gets trashed, its a metric owner complaining about Harleys. In my state at least, in all my years of riding, only words I ever got from HD owners was, "nice bike".
Anyway, not to change the subject of the thread, its a long one*L* but there are motorcycle riders like you posted and then their are people out there always looking to trash someone else's pride. Its happens on both sides, but like you say, then there are also the REAL motorcycle people and riders who just plain love riding no matter the brand and accept other peoples choices.
The link was for people to see what a 'real' motorcycle lover looks like. Not about what he rides. I have ridden with David Willett several times over the years, and he lives in the same town I live in. He also has a Suzuki Burgman with over 160,000 miles and a Honda Goldwing with a couple hundred thousand miles on it, as of 2014. I'm sure most everything on 'old Charlie' was replaced at least once, but again the link was intended to be about a motorcycle lover, and not a brand specific poser.
I too like all bikes. I said it a million times. To me personally, being in forums for a few years now and also owning two metrics before the current road king.
My feelings are I see more Harley bashing from metric owners. Whenever a bike gets trashed, its a metric owner complaining about Harleys. In my state at least, in all my years of riding, only words I ever got from HD owners was, "nice bike".
Anyway, not to change the subject of the thread, its a long one*L* but there are motorcycle riders like you posted and then their are people out there always looking to trash someone else's pride. Its happens on both sides, but like you say, then there are also the REAL motorcycle people and riders who just plain love riding no matter the brand and accept other peoples choices.
Originally Posted By: alarmguy
Originally Posted By: gman2304
The link was for people to see what a 'real' motorcycle lover looks like. Not about what he rides. I have ridden with David Willett several times over the years, and he lives in the same town I live in. He also has a Suzuki Burgman with over 160,000 miles and a Honda Goldwing with a couple hundred thousand miles on it, as of 2014. I'm sure most everything on 'old Charlie' was replaced at least once, but again the link was intended to be about a motorcycle lover, and not a brand specific poser.
I too like all bikes. I said it a million times. To me personally, being in forums for a few years now and also owning two metrics before the current road king.
My feelings are I see more Harley bashing from metric owners. Whenever a bike gets trashed, its a metric owner complaining about Harleys. In my state at least, in all my years of riding, only words I ever got from HD owners was, "nice bike".
Anyway, not to change the subject of the thread, its a long one*L* but there are motorcycle riders like you posted and then their are people out there always looking to trash someone else's pride. Its happens on both sides, but like you say, then there are also the REAL motorcycle people and riders who just plain love riding no matter the brand and accept other peoples choices.
No one here is out to trash anyone's pride. Whenever someone states anything negative about Harleys, even when it's true, the Harley guys take it personally. That's your problem if you don't like facts. I couldn't care less what anyone else rides...it's your money, buy with it what you like, but when people start spewing information that isn't true on a forum, you can't expect it to go unchallenged...
Originally Posted By: gman2304
The link was for people to see what a 'real' motorcycle lover looks like. Not about what he rides. I have ridden with David Willett several times over the years, and he lives in the same town I live in. He also has a Suzuki Burgman with over 160,000 miles and a Honda Goldwing with a couple hundred thousand miles on it, as of 2014. I'm sure most everything on 'old Charlie' was replaced at least once, but again the link was intended to be about a motorcycle lover, and not a brand specific poser.
I too like all bikes. I said it a million times. To me personally, being in forums for a few years now and also owning two metrics before the current road king.
My feelings are I see more Harley bashing from metric owners. Whenever a bike gets trashed, its a metric owner complaining about Harleys. In my state at least, in all my years of riding, only words I ever got from HD owners was, "nice bike".
Anyway, not to change the subject of the thread, its a long one*L* but there are motorcycle riders like you posted and then their are people out there always looking to trash someone else's pride. Its happens on both sides, but like you say, then there are also the REAL motorcycle people and riders who just plain love riding no matter the brand and accept other peoples choices.
No one here is out to trash anyone's pride. Whenever someone states anything negative about Harleys, even when it's true, the Harley guys take it personally. That's your problem if you don't like facts. I couldn't care less what anyone else rides...it's your money, buy with it what you like, but when people start spewing information that isn't true on a forum, you can't expect it to go unchallenged...
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: alarmguy
Originally Posted By: alarmguy
gman2304 said:No one here is out to trash anyone's pride. Whenever someone states anything negative about Harleys, even when it's true, the Harley guys take it personally. That's your problem if you don't like facts. I couldn't care less what anyone else rides...it's your money, buy with it what you like, but when people start spewing information that isn't true on a forum, you can't expect it to go unchallenged...
Also goes the other way around! Ha! .... Here is a fact, over 50% of people buying motorcycles over 600cc in the United States of America prefer and choose a Harley
Im sure you will come back with one of your facts and say its all "marketing" leaving out facts such as superior fit, finish and quality of materials.
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Originally Posted By: alarmguy
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: alarmguy
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: alarmguy
gman2304 said:No one here is out to trash anyone's pride. Whenever someone states anything negative about Harleys, even when it's true, the Harley guys take it personally. That's your problem if you don't like facts. I couldn't care less what anyone else rides...it's your money, buy with it what you like, but when people start spewing information that isn't true on a forum, you can't expect it to go unchallenged...
Also goes the other way around! Ha! .... Here is a fact, over 50% of people buying motorcycles over 600cc in the United States of America prefer and choose a Harley
Im sure you will come back with one of your facts and say its all "marketing" leaving out facts such as superior fit, finish and quality of materials.
The Ford Pinto was at one time the best selling car in the USA. And yet it is often ranked as one of the 10 worst automobiles of all time. The lesson there is simple. Sales numbers are not always an indication of quality. And "fit, finish, and quality of materials" are not facts, those are subjective opinions easily colored by bias.
And before someone gets their orange and black panties in a bunch I am not saying Harleys are Pinto bad or anything, just pointing out that line of argument is a rather poor one to pursue as it really does play into the "it is just marketing" retort.
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Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: alarmguy
Originally Posted By: gman2304
The link was for people to see what a 'real' motorcycle lover looks like. Not about what he rides. I have ridden with David Willett several times over the years, and he lives in the same town I live in. He also has a Suzuki Burgman with over 160,000 miles and a Honda Goldwing with a couple hundred thousand miles on it, as of 2014. I'm sure most everything on 'old Charlie' was replaced at least once, but again the link was intended to be about a motorcycle lover, and not a brand specific poser.
I too like all bikes. I said it a million times. To me personally, being in forums for a few years now and also owning two metrics before the current road king.
My feelings are I see more Harley bashing from metric owners. Whenever a bike gets trashed, its a metric owner complaining about Harleys. In my state at least, in all my years of riding, only words I ever got from HD owners was, "nice bike".
Anyway, not to change the subject of the thread, its a long one*L* but there are motorcycle riders like you posted and then their are people out there always looking to trash someone else's pride. Its happens on both sides, but like you say, then there are also the REAL motorcycle people and riders who just plain love riding no matter the brand and accept other peoples choices.
No one here is out to trash anyone's pride. Whenever someone states anything negative about Harleys, even when it's true, the Harley guys take it personally. That's your problem if you don't like facts. I couldn't care less what anyone else rides...it's your money, buy with it what you like, but when people start spewing information that isn't true on a forum, you can't expect it to go unchallenged...
Why do you think people challenge your information? Your information at best is 10% true. Bash less and ride more.
Originally Posted By: alarmguy
Originally Posted By: gman2304
The link was for people to see what a 'real' motorcycle lover looks like. Not about what he rides. I have ridden with David Willett several times over the years, and he lives in the same town I live in. He also has a Suzuki Burgman with over 160,000 miles and a Honda Goldwing with a couple hundred thousand miles on it, as of 2014. I'm sure most everything on 'old Charlie' was replaced at least once, but again the link was intended to be about a motorcycle lover, and not a brand specific poser.
I too like all bikes. I said it a million times. To me personally, being in forums for a few years now and also owning two metrics before the current road king.
My feelings are I see more Harley bashing from metric owners. Whenever a bike gets trashed, its a metric owner complaining about Harleys. In my state at least, in all my years of riding, only words I ever got from HD owners was, "nice bike".
Anyway, not to change the subject of the thread, its a long one*L* but there are motorcycle riders like you posted and then their are people out there always looking to trash someone else's pride. Its happens on both sides, but like you say, then there are also the REAL motorcycle people and riders who just plain love riding no matter the brand and accept other peoples choices.
No one here is out to trash anyone's pride. Whenever someone states anything negative about Harleys, even when it's true, the Harley guys take it personally. That's your problem if you don't like facts. I couldn't care less what anyone else rides...it's your money, buy with it what you like, but when people start spewing information that isn't true on a forum, you can't expect it to go unchallenged...
Why do you think people challenge your information? Your information at best is 10% true. Bash less and ride more.
Robenstein - That had to be the worst analogy of comparing 2 products I ever saw and for that reason Im not even "quoting" your statement. I promise my panites arent twisted.
Comparing the absolute cheapest model from an automobile company to an entire companies product?
Do you honestly think people where buying Pintos for their Cadillac or BMW fit finish and quality?
I dont know but last I checked, Pintos arent made anymore ... and the Pinto was never a company, just a budget model from a large automobile company - Ford.
How you judge, fit, finish and quality of materials is up to you. But since this is a Japan vs USA. Japan has been unable to compete in the largest cruiser market in the world, the USA... they do have their panties in a twist, slashing product offerings for years now.
Another good way to judge fit, finish, quality, read professional reviews or go and compare the products yourself. Harley Davidson is a recognized leader, the metrics were always the "Pinto" version (low cost except Goldwing, that has even become stale). Now before any metric owners get their panties in a twist, I am in no way comparing the reliability of a Pinto with a bike.
Comparing the absolute cheapest model from an automobile company to an entire companies product?
Do you honestly think people where buying Pintos for their Cadillac or BMW fit finish and quality?
I dont know but last I checked, Pintos arent made anymore ... and the Pinto was never a company, just a budget model from a large automobile company - Ford.
How you judge, fit, finish and quality of materials is up to you. But since this is a Japan vs USA. Japan has been unable to compete in the largest cruiser market in the world, the USA... they do have their panties in a twist, slashing product offerings for years now.
Another good way to judge fit, finish, quality, read professional reviews or go and compare the products yourself. Harley Davidson is a recognized leader, the metrics were always the "Pinto" version (low cost except Goldwing, that has even become stale). Now before any metric owners get their panties in a twist, I am in no way comparing the reliability of a Pinto with a bike.
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Originally Posted By: dr2152
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: alarmguy
Originally Posted By: gman2304
The link was for people to see what a 'real' motorcycle lover looks like. Not about what he rides. I have ridden with David Willett several times over the years, and he lives in the same town I live in. He also has a Suzuki Burgman with over 160,000 miles and a Honda Goldwing with a couple hundred thousand miles on it, as of 2014. I'm sure most everything on 'old Charlie' was replaced at least once, but again the link was intended to be about a motorcycle lover, and not a brand specific poser.
I too like all bikes. I said it a million times. To me personally, being in forums for a few years now and also owning two metrics before the current road king.
My feelings are I see more Harley bashing from metric owners. Whenever a bike gets trashed, its a metric owner complaining about Harleys. In my state at least, in all my years of riding, only words I ever got from HD owners was, "nice bike".
Anyway, not to change the subject of the thread, its a long one*L* but there are motorcycle riders like you posted and then their are people out there always looking to trash someone else's pride. Its happens on both sides, but like you say, then there are also the REAL motorcycle people and riders who just plain love riding no matter the brand and accept other peoples choices.
No one here is out to trash anyone's pride. Whenever someone states anything negative about Harleys, even when it's true, the Harley guys take it personally. That's your problem if you don't like facts. I couldn't care less what anyone else rides...it's your money, buy with it what you like, but when people start spewing information that isn't true on a forum, you can't expect it to go unchallenged...
Why do you think people challenge your information? Your information at best is 10% true. Bash less and ride more.
I have to agree with you, you took the words out of my mouth. Grampi always talking about these so called "facts" that he spews out on his keyboard. YET, I have never seen a fact from him!
I dont even know if he ever presented any facts, never mind 10% ...
I know I said it a million times, I dont care what anyone rides and I never met anyone who did.
Here is a fact, once again, the OP states Japan taking over the motorcycle industry, ummmm ... no, they have been a failure in the USA and they got big problems at home too. (yes we do to*L*)
Japan has been unable to take over the Cruiser market, they tried for decades complete and costly failure and have retreated.
I will admit, they might make a comeback with cheaper "Pinto" pricing on bikes, because believe it or not, the high standard of living Americans enjoyed is coming to an end. It can not possibly go on unless we correct the budget mess in Washington ... We need to fix this, click (wont work with an apple product)
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: alarmguy
Originally Posted By: gman2304
The link was for people to see what a 'real' motorcycle lover looks like. Not about what he rides. I have ridden with David Willett several times over the years, and he lives in the same town I live in. He also has a Suzuki Burgman with over 160,000 miles and a Honda Goldwing with a couple hundred thousand miles on it, as of 2014. I'm sure most everything on 'old Charlie' was replaced at least once, but again the link was intended to be about a motorcycle lover, and not a brand specific poser.
I too like all bikes. I said it a million times. To me personally, being in forums for a few years now and also owning two metrics before the current road king.
My feelings are I see more Harley bashing from metric owners. Whenever a bike gets trashed, its a metric owner complaining about Harleys. In my state at least, in all my years of riding, only words I ever got from HD owners was, "nice bike".
Anyway, not to change the subject of the thread, its a long one*L* but there are motorcycle riders like you posted and then their are people out there always looking to trash someone else's pride. Its happens on both sides, but like you say, then there are also the REAL motorcycle people and riders who just plain love riding no matter the brand and accept other peoples choices.
No one here is out to trash anyone's pride. Whenever someone states anything negative about Harleys, even when it's true, the Harley guys take it personally. That's your problem if you don't like facts. I couldn't care less what anyone else rides...it's your money, buy with it what you like, but when people start spewing information that isn't true on a forum, you can't expect it to go unchallenged...
Why do you think people challenge your information? Your information at best is 10% true. Bash less and ride more.
I have to agree with you, you took the words out of my mouth. Grampi always talking about these so called "facts" that he spews out on his keyboard. YET, I have never seen a fact from him!
I dont even know if he ever presented any facts, never mind 10% ...
I know I said it a million times, I dont care what anyone rides and I never met anyone who did.
Here is a fact, once again, the OP states Japan taking over the motorcycle industry, ummmm ... no, they have been a failure in the USA and they got big problems at home too. (yes we do to*L*)
Japan has been unable to take over the Cruiser market, they tried for decades complete and costly failure and have retreated.
I will admit, they might make a comeback with cheaper "Pinto" pricing on bikes, because believe it or not, the high standard of living Americans enjoyed is coming to an end. It can not possibly go on unless we correct the budget mess in Washington ... We need to fix this, click (wont work with an apple product)
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'And before someone gets their orange and black panties in a bunch I am not saying Harleys are Pinto bad or anything, just pointing out that line of argument is a rather poor one to pursue as it really does play into the "it is just marketing" retort'.
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Harley Davidson........'Fooling motorcycle buyers for over 113 years.....and still going strong'!
^
Harley Davidson........'Fooling motorcycle buyers for over 113 years.....and still going strong'!
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