Japan taking over the motorcycle industry

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Ps ...


I want BOTH companies to do good, competition is good. However Polaris has not proven anything to the market place yet LONG term. For over a DECADE now, their Victory brand is still the same old brand and same old pathetic market share. Its been a money loser for Polaris but motorcycles are just a tiny portion of their business or they would have been out of business.

They failed at Victory (sales wise) so now they come up with a new line, Indian. looks to me like they got something with Indian but 10 years ago, people felt the same way about Victory.

We will see if its different this time, maybe management has learned from their mistakes. Its not the bikes its the demand for the bikes, at the price point of Indian your taking way less of a chance your $23,000 motorcycle will be worth something a couple years down the road with a Harley vs a new unproven brand.

Indian is the new kid on the block demanding the prices of an established 100+ year old company of a luxury brand, Harley Davidson. Time will tell, OF COURSE they will steal some sales from Harley and since Indian hardly produces any bikes yet Indian sales increase will look better because there are no previous sales! Also, HD can't steal any market share from Indian, because Indian has none, YET>

Its easy to steal market share from a company (HD) that OWNS 50% of the market, its hard as [censored] for HD to steal market share from a company that has maybe 2-3% of the Market (Polaris/Indian)

Ok, done with this thread... (really this time)
 
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Originally Posted By: alarmguy
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: alarmguy
gman2304 said:
No one here is out to trash anyone's pride. Whenever someone states anything negative about Harleys, even when it's true, the Harley guys take it personally. That's your problem if you don't like facts. I couldn't care less what anyone else rides...it's your money, buy with it what you like, but when people start spewing information that isn't true on a forum, you can't expect it to go unchallenged...


Also goes the other way around! Ha! .... Here is a fact, over 50% of people buying motorcycles over 600cc in the United States of America prefer and choose a Harley :o) over all other brands combined.

Im sure you will come back with one of your facts and say its all "marketing" leaving out facts such as superior fit, finish and quality of materials.


You sure are hung up on this sales thing, aren't you? You've posted the exact same thing about a half dozen times. McDonalds sells more burgers than anyone too, that doesn't mean they make the best burgers...
Click to expand...
 
Originally Posted By: alarmguy
I have to agree with you, you took the words out of my mouth. Grampi always talking about these so called "facts" that he spews out on his keyboard. YET, I have never seen a fact from him!
I dont even know if he ever presented any facts, never mind 10% ...
I know I said it a million times, I dont care what anyone rides and I never met anyone who did.
Here is a fact, once again, the OP states Japan taking over the motorcycle industry, ummmm ... no, they have been a failure in the USA and they got big problems at home too. (yes we do to*L*)
Japan has been unable to take over the Cruiser market, they tried for decades complete and costly failure and have retreated.
I will admit, they might make a comeback with cheaper "Pinto" pricing on bikes, because believe it or not, the high standard of living Americans enjoyed is coming to an end. It can not possibly go on unless we correct the budget mess in Washington ... We need to fix this, click (wont work with an apple product)


Fact: Harley's engine designs are antiquated compared to other makes...I'm sure the Harley Kool-Aid drinkers will be quick to chime in and claim this isn't a fact, but I wouldn't expect anything less from those living in la la land...
 
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Originally Posted By: SlipperyPete
Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
You are correct. They mass produce cheaply made two wheel products that are sold in third world countries, for pennies on the dollar. Who cares? two stroke motors which do nothing to help their already polluted beyond belief cities.They just keep pumping them out.And what they do sell here in the US, they sell cheap until people tire if them, then they don't sell and become what fills up their warehouses for a few years. '13,'14,'15 model year bikes can still be bought brand new. And the prices keep on dropping until They are dropped from production and replaced with another flavor of the week.The correct title of this post should have been,"Cheap japanese motorcycles whats the point of them" ?.,,


It seems strange a grown man should care so much about what other people buy. You do realize your HD is just your motorcycle and not your johnson, don't you? Really, no one is commenting about you personally when they buy something besides an HD. But I'm sure HD appreciates you protecting the internet for them, so you got that going for you.


You gotta keep in mind these Harley guys are brainwashed...they are so far gone nothing you say, or even prove is going to change their minds...
 
There will always be people in this world who think you should spend your money as they think you should, whether its buying a car, house, boat, bike or anything in life. I'm not one of those.
You make a strong case that you are. I speak with facts, you speak with hearsay.
I don't tell my own kids what to do, when they come to me for advice I give them my thoughts and let them make up their own mind.
In the case of motorcycles, for me and everyone I know, it's not what you ride but what makes you happy.
I have owned a Suzuki, great bike, enjoyed it, then on to a vstar 1300 great bike, enjoyed it more. Now a 14 Road King and its the ultimate bike for me.

This seems to also coincide with another fact from consumer reports, you can do your own research since you are so good at it. Look it up, BMW and Harley Davidson are at the top of the list in owner satisfaction when asked if they would buy another of the same brand, some metrics, down at the bottom of the list.
This report was about 2 years ago before the much improved Rushmore bikes came out. As far as reliability BMW and Harley at the bottom of the list but not for major mechanical issues, small stuff, which would make sense as both bikes are at the luxury end with more features. One such feature in itself is cruise control, standard on all HD touring bikes, also many of these tourers have ABS etc.

So good luck to you, no need for me to associate with you, as I am one who rides the wrong bike. I will reply though when facts are not presented, if I feel like it.

Peace :o)
 
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Originally Posted By: alarmguy
There will always be people in this world who think you should spend your money as they think you should, whether its buying a car, house, boat, bike or anything in life. I'm not one of those.
You make a strong case that you are. I speak with facts, you speak with hearsay.
I don't tell my own kids what to do, when they come to me for advice I give them my thoughts and let them make up their own mind.
In the case of motorcycles, for me and everyone I know, it's not what you ride but what makes you happy.
I have owned a Suzuki, great bike, enjoyed it, then on to a vstar 1300 great bike, enjoyed it more. Now a 14 Road King and its the ultimate bike for me.

This seems to also coincide with another fact from consumer reports, you can do your own research since you are so good at it. Look it up, BMW and Harley Davidson are at the top of the list in owner satisfaction when asked if they would buy another of the same brand, some metrics, down at the bottom of the list.
This report was about 2 years ago before the much improved Rushmore bikes came out. As far as reliability BMW and Harley at the bottom of the list but not for major mechanical issues, small stuff, which would make sense as both bikes are at the luxury end with more features. One such feature in itself is cruise control, standard on all HD touring bikes, also many of these tourers have ABS etc.

So good luck to you, no need for me to associate with you, as I am one who rides the wrong bike. I will reply though when facts are not presented, if I feel like it.

Peace :o)


The only facts I've seen you present (if they actually are facts) are sales numbers. They mean absolutely nothing in terms of how well, or how poorly Harleys are built, and you have yet to produce anything to refute any of my statements, and you aren't going to because no such info exists. I see you have no comment about the videos I posted either...
 
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2014 Victory cross country tour....NADA, average clean retail $16,100.

2014 Harley Davidson Electraglide Ultra....NADA, average clean retail $21,400.

These prices aren't exact, but will get you close to real world used pricing. This is not a youtube video of a fat bald headed biased Victory dealer in AZ.
 
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Originally Posted By: gman2304
2014 Victory cross country tour....NADA, average clean retail $16,100.

2014 Harley Davidson Electraglide Ultra....NADA, average clean retail $21,400.

These prices aren't exact, but will get you close to real world used pricing. This is not a youtube video of a fat bald headed biased Victory dealer in AZ.



Can you Harley guys come up with anything besides sales figures? And biased or not, are you going to deny the points made in the videos are not true or accurate? Also, real world pricing doesn't come from an NADA book, it comes from actual selling prices, which are always going to be lower than what's in the book, especially when dealing with a market that is completely saturated with Harleys...
 
"Can you Harley guys come up with anything besides sales figures?"

^ These aren't sales figures ^. It's a rough comparison of how much a comparable Victory vs Harley might depreciate after only two years.
 
Originally Posted By: gman2304
"Can you Harley guys come up with anything besides sales figures?"

^ These aren't sales figures ^. It's a rough comparison of how much a comparable Victory vs Harley might depreciate after only two years.



Sale prices are a sales figure, and it might come as a surprise to you, but motorcycles aren't meant to be looked at as an investment portfolio...motorcycles are a hobby...
 
'it might come as a surprise to you, but motorcycles aren't meant to be looked at as an investment portfolio...motorcycles are a hobby...'

^Brilliant deduction....!^ I expected no less!
 
Originally Posted By: gman2304
'it might come as a surprise to you, but motorcycles aren't meant to be looked at as an investment portfolio...motorcycles are a hobby...'

^Brilliant deduction....!^ I expected no less!



Motorcycles are not a hobby?
 
Originally Posted By: CT8
If I had a bike it would be better than yours and yours and yours.


Agreed !!!!!
smile.gif
 
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: gman2304
'it might come as a surprise to you, but motorcycles aren't meant to be looked at as an investment portfolio...motorcycles are a hobby...'

^Brilliant deduction....!^ I expected no less!



Motorcycles are not a hobby?


I consider my Motorcycles to be Therapy.
grin.gif
 
Originally Posted By: gman2304
2014 Victory cross country tour....NADA, average clean retail $16,100.

2014 Harley Davidson Electraglide Ultra....NADA, average clean retail $21,400.

These prices aren't exact, but will get you close to real world used pricing. This is not a youtube video of a fat bald headed biased Victory dealer in AZ.



If and when I reach the stage of my life when my life-long passion for riding, and buying the bike that stirs my insides, becomes overshadowed by the (overly rational) investment side of the equation, I will take it as a sign that it's time to hang up the gloves.... Just sayin'
 
I haven't read this thread, but I'll bet I can make a few accurate assumptions.

1) Grampi bashed Harley, the owners, and made up a story about them being over priced.

2) Big Cahuna blindly defended Harley

3) Jaraxle made a goofy comparison about his scooter and a Harley, someone questioned him, and he asked if they were high.

4) the rest of the posters had a decent conversation.
 
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