interesting for sure + like ZEE i own ZERO DI vehicles + being 74 YO + retired that will NOT change!! seen were even a dual injected ford encountered deposits although less + later in its life. seems many that can afford it change vehicles earlier to beat deposits + other costly issues with our techy modern vehicles!!
IVDs and oils with ANs/Esters
- Thread starter SubieRubyRoo
- Start date
D
Deleted member 89374
It vaporized as soon as the ignition hit ACC.
Ok ... I found SAE 2016-01-2252 which did a big study on how ITV deposits are formed. Go Google and search for "SAE 2016-01-2252 oil-club.de" and look for "oil-club.de" and it has the full PDF download - should be near the top of the search.
From the SAE study, they determined the majority of the deposits was flow from the PCV system, and when they removed the PCV system all together the deposit rate dropped to near zero. The IVD rate on the individual valves was also a function of the PCV gas introduction location in the intake vs the location of the valves. The valves closest to the where the PCV gasses came into the intake had the largest deposits.
They also tested for the impact of bad valve guides and seals, and really didn't see much impact on a new head with new guides and seals compared to what they considered a worn out head with supposedly worn guides and seals. See section called "Blowby versus Valve Guide Leakage". Most of the other 29% in Fig 10 might have been from bad valve guides and seals.
"A new head with unused guides, new seals and valves was used in Test No. 3. These data along with the data from the prior two tests are summarized in Table 2.
While directionally higher in average weight gain, a close examination of the individual valve data shows no pattern that supports a conclusion that the new head had higher IVD formation."
From the SAE study, they determined the majority of the deposits was flow from the PCV system, and when they removed the PCV system all together the deposit rate dropped to near zero. The IVD rate on the individual valves was also a function of the PCV gas introduction location in the intake vs the location of the valves. The valves closest to the where the PCV gasses came into the intake had the largest deposits.
They also tested for the impact of bad valve guides and seals, and really didn't see much impact on a new head with new guides and seals compared to what they considered a worn out head with supposedly worn guides and seals. See section called "Blowby versus Valve Guide Leakage". Most of the other 29% in Fig 10 might have been from bad valve guides and seals.
"A new head with unused guides, new seals and valves was used in Test No. 3. These data along with the data from the prior two tests are summarized in Table 2.
While directionally higher in average weight gain, a close examination of the individual valve data shows no pattern that supports a conclusion that the new head had higher IVD formation."
Last edited:
So what I’m hearing is… bring back the “pan-evac” and tie it in behind the cats
Yeah, prevent the crankcase vapors from going into the intake manifold and most of the ITV issues go "POOF".So what I’m hearing is… bring back the “pan-evac” and tie it in behind the cats
I was right.. we agree and have uncovered the fix for valve depositsYeah, remove the vapor from going into the intake manifold and most of the ITV issues go "POOF".
Plus the good thing about pan-evacs is that the harder you stand on the gas, the better they work. The exact opposite of PCV, which stops working very close to when the throttle is rolled open. This also helps ring seal, which reduces blow-by and also improves power!
It also results in more HP because there is reduced windage/pumping losses if the crankcase is a partial vacuum. A buddy of mine did that on his Hayabusa and saw a decent HP gain on the dyno. Also why pro drag racers use a crank evac system.
No this was not my formula. We retired the formulation after STP backed away as we couldn't find another interested party.
Last edited:
According to my research, the following two products to obtain esters and AN's (which i also just so happen to be using myself for cleaning purposes)
---Marvel Mystery Oil - contains 74% Naphthenic Base Oils (I think these would qualify as Alkylated Naphthalene's ("AN's")) according to my research from online sources, but im not a subject area expert so I may be mistaken.
---Rislone Model 100QR Engine Treatment (not the high mileage version) - contains 11% of some kind of ester according to research I have seen on BITOG
While I know using a high quality oil should provide all the benefits I need, I like to go above and beyond every once and a while to kind of clean things out before putting in fresh oil. I usually use these two products right before an oil change, but i use them in low amounts (about 5 to 10% each) so I could probably run them the whole OCI if I needed more solvent strength.
---Marvel Mystery Oil - contains 74% Naphthenic Base Oils (I think these would qualify as Alkylated Naphthalene's ("AN's")) according to my research from online sources, but im not a subject area expert so I may be mistaken.
---Rislone Model 100QR Engine Treatment (not the high mileage version) - contains 11% of some kind of ester according to research I have seen on BITOG
While I know using a high quality oil should provide all the benefits I need, I like to go above and beyond every once and a while to kind of clean things out before putting in fresh oil. I usually use these two products right before an oil change, but i use them in low amounts (about 5 to 10% each) so I could probably run them the whole OCI if I needed more solvent strength.
Tom, were there any chemicals similar to the very light esters you were talking about that ever ended up in motor oils to your knowledge? Or any other compounds that could be used in this manner (either valve stem seal leakage or PCV vapors) that could be used prior to an oil change maybe?
I am not aware of esters like this one being used in motor oils, or anything similar.
Similar threads
