It looks like electric vehicles are going to be shoved down our throats

[Wolf359]

I am perfectly fine with electric cars. Not as many moving parts and emissions equipment, no complex transmission to fail, etc. Also I don't have to sit in traffic behind a semi belching diesel fumes. If I can pull up to a charge station and have my car charged for a week of commuting in 15 minutes, i'd be very happy to have an EV.

Obviously I hate the government shoving things down our throat and making money off of it. 40% of my income goes to the government already and all they do is throw it away on trash programs...but that is a topic for a different forum haha.

Lots of pipe dreams in there. Maybe if your commute is short you could it in 15 minutes but probably much longer.

As for the government making a profit, that hasn't happened in decades, you can just refer to the national debt. And contrary to some sayings, GM doesn't mean Government Motors, they're a private company. And if no one buys their EVs, they will just go out of business, they're not forcing anyone to buy their products.

 

[Job]

We're talking about Los Angeles. How the State of Calif chooses to address their future power demands is up to them but we're not talking about the State of Calif but the claim that LA County would have to build 7 nuclear power plants to charge over 2M EV's at night. LA County receives 283 days of sun per year plus solar panels still generate power on cloudy days. Also there's battery storage and home solar where the batteries at home are being charged during the day and used to offset nighttime demand.

LA county is the electric provider, or So Cal Edison?

On another topic mentioned, CA is charging $100 per year additional fee for ev’s on the registration starting this year on most 2020 models and up. Unless they repealed it. This is to make them pay for using roads.

 

[PimTac]

No matter how cynical you get, you just can't keep up.

The gas tax basically hasn't gone up because people are resistant to taxes even though the current ones aren't high enough to cover the current costs.

Maybe in your area they haven’t gone up.

Also, gasoline taxes are not going to road infrastructure. They go to the general fund and get appropriated from there.

The shift from infrastructure spending to social spending has its consequences. That shift started many years ago.

 

[Rmay635703]

I think the Ev's should have a road tax attached to them when purchased. Perhaps equal to what an similar gas powered ,car would pay over 100kmiles.
The ev car will use the roads and never pay a fuel tax per gallon, yet use the roads for free. Just collect it up front.

The trouble is they do tax BEVs but then equally jack up gas economy car registrations just as much, no one in their right mind should ever hope for high taxes because then the legislatures use it as an opening to oppress everyone with high fees.

In my state they collect about 15 years of gas tax on an EV when you title the car.

Given that I won’t own one,
nor does anyone else apparently since statewide EV sales have been single digits since the tax passed. And no rational person wants taxation to choose your vehicle, since once the precident is set the winds change and then you are retroactively affected

A lot of folks I know that picked up a cheap $2000 EV years ago
then got rid of the cars after the tax passed because in Wisconsin a cheap electric car is only about as useful as a moped due to the lack of infrastructure and very short winter range, so why pay an extreme premium on a limited cheap car?

The average BEV only averages around
As such an EVs registration should be the same $26 bi annual fee a moped pays.

Fair share is just a myth by commercial interests to force you to pay for their road damages,

registration fees are only meant to cover the cost of the plate and the beauricratic they were never meant to fund roads, in fact the DMV generally looses about 50% of fees to overhead, legal and enforcement,
While gas tax is over 99% efficient since there is no human interaction/enforcement

most states have found that having no private party annual plate at all (permanent plates) saves so much money that they actually come out ahead but ma jobs folks have a fit about that but that is the correct way forward to fully abandon the failed registration concept and just pull out of the general fund, the billions of dollars of municipal substation taxes and gas taxes.

Could cut overall taxes in half overnight just by eliminating annual license fees on private citizens lump it into the gas tax while actually getting more $$$ into the kitty instead of wasting it on thousands of dmv officials

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

LA county is the electric provider, or So Cal Edison?

On another topic mentioned, CA is charging $100 per year additional fee for ev’s on the registration starting this year on most 2020 models and up. Unless they repealed it. This is to make them pay for using roads.

I think residents have a choice. Oh an ya the road tax is going to make things get real very quickly. There's no free lunch and EV/Hybrid owners have been free riders off the gas only crowd.

 

[supton]

In my state they collect about 15 years of gas tax on an EV when you title the car.

Given that I won’t own one,

Don't blame you! I would support "paying my fair share" -- but not all at once!

 

[wag123]

In my state they collect about 15 years of gas tax on an EV when you title the car.

This is just not fair. A road tax NEEDS to be collected, but it should be collected each year along with the registration fee.

 

[Skeet6]

Feds haven't raised gas tax since the mid 1990s and states don't want to outdo each other.

Pennsylvania says "Hold my beer!"
Mike B

Which State has the Highest Tax Rate?​

The state with the highest tax rate on gasoline is Pennsylvania at $0.586 / gallon followed closely by California at $0.533 / gallon.
The highest tax rate on diesel is $0.741 / gallon again from Pennsylvania.
Meanwhile the highest tax rate on aviation fuel is Indiana at $0.51 / gallon.
Finally, the state with the highest tax rate on jet fuel is Kansas at $0.26 / gallon.

 

[Wolf359]

Maybe in your area they haven’t gone up.

Also, gasoline taxes are not going to road infrastructure. They go to the general fund and get appropriated from there.

The shift from infrastructure spending to social spending has its consequences. That shift started many years ago.

That's just an accounting trick. Total spending on roads vs total revenue from gas taxes. Doesn't matter where it goes initially. Some years they didn't spend all the gas tax, but the road problems don't go away if you don't spend the money, they actually get worse.

 

[Pew]

No matter how cynical you get, you just can't keep up.

The gas tax basically hasn't gone up because people are resistant to taxes even though the current ones aren't high enough to cover the current costs.

I'm completely fine with higher taxes assuming they're actually going towards the intended use because I understand the need for certain taxes. But since we're talking about Illinois in mine and Java's post that I quoted it starts going political and off-topic after that.

 

[OVERKILL]

This is just not fair. A road tax NEEDS to be collected, but it should be collected each year along with the registration fee.

Should be a per kWh levy, that's likely the easiest to impose, can be rolled into public charge fees and I suspect would be relatively easy to implement in a home charge scenario as well. Then it becomes the same as the fuel taxes and you pay based what you are driving and how much you drive it.

 

[4WD]

This is just not fair. A road tax NEEDS to be collected, but it should be collected each year along with the registration fee.

Well, the Texas 2 step is we have to do the inspection before getting the registration … reckon they could add odometer reading to the inspection … charge based on a rate schedule per mile …

 

[Rmay635703]

I

Should be a per kWh levy, that's likely the easiest to impose, can be rolled into public charge fees and I suspect would be relatively easy to implement in a home charge scenario as well. Then it becomes the same as the fuel taxes and you pay based what you are driving and how much you drive it.

It’s so easy every state already charges “municipal substation tax”

The most famous case was exposed in Rhode Island because the power operator sued the municipality because private power bills would have been 62% driven by tax. (Industrial customers generally have their own equipment and are exempt)

Trust me we do not need additional fees/taxes that only apply to individuals, EVs pay plenty of tax, (you don’t move from baseload costs of 2-3 cents per kwhr to whatever you pay by magic)
just need accountability to work within the existing tax base.

And anyone who browbeats someone for being a cheapskate because they don’t pay enough you can automatically dismiss them as intellectually bankrupt as they are trying to use guilt to shift blame from the guilty party(s) to a scapegoat

 

[OVERKILL]

I

It’s so easy every state already charges “municipal substation tax”

The most famous case was exposed in Rhode Island because the power operator sued the municipality because private power bills would have been 62% driven by tax. (Industrial customers generally have their own equipment and are exempt)

Trust me we do not need additional fees/taxes that only apply to individuals, EVs pay plenty of tax, just need accountability to work within the existing tax base.

Not here they don't. The reg fee is the same as a gasser and then you've got a free ride as you don't pay any fuel tax.

 

[Pew]

Well, the Texas 2 step is we have to do the inspection before getting the registration … reckon they could add odometer reading to the inspection … charge based on a rate schedule per mile …

IL strongly considered it before they finalized the increase of gas tax. However, as somebody who does a lot of travelling I don't see why IL should tax me based on my miles when a lot of my miles are out-of-state.

The following is the cost of EV registration in IL versus gassers in case anybody was wondering:
Random-Number Electric Vehicle License Plates

• Newly acquired vehicle/first-time issuance - $401 ($150 title fee + $251 registration fee)
• Currently titled vehicle/first-time issuance - $251 ($251 registration fee)
• Current plates expire within 90 days - $280 ($251 registration fee + $29 replacement fee)
• Current plates do not expire within 90 days - $280 ($251 registration fee + $29 replacement fee)
• Annual renewal - $251

Random-Number License Plates Fees

• Newly acquired vehicle/first-time issuance - $301 ($150 title fee + $151 registration fee)
• Currently titled vehicle/first-time issuance - $151 ($151 registration fee)
• Current plates expire within 90 days - $180 ($151 registration fee + $29 replacement fee)
• Current plates do not expire within 90 days - $29 ($29 replacement fee)
• Annual renewal - $151 ($151 registration fee)

 

[Wolf359]

I'm completely fine with higher taxes assuming they're actually going towards the intended use because I understand the need for certain taxes. But since we're talking about Illinois in mine and Java's post that I quoted it starts going political and off-topic after that.

We do the same in this state, gas tax goes toward the general fund and some years they don't spend enough on roads but they did do a package not too long ago where they committed billions to roads and bridges and it all didn't come from the gas tax.

We also have local excise tax which is supposed to go toward maintaining the roads in the city you live in. Can get pretty high, it's like 90% of the price of the car, mine stickered for 65k but they only use about 50k because that was the price of the base model. And after 5 years it goes to 10% so I only pay $25 per thousand of assessed value so only about $125 a year instead of the $1125 it would be if the car had been new. The people on bicycles really get a free ride, no gas tax and no excise tax, but they get their own lanes and markings for free.

 

[Rmay635703]

Not here they don't. The reg fee is the same as a gasser and then you've got a free ride as you don't pay any fuel tax.

Bull, every US municipality pays substation tax and it will never be itemized on your bill.

Remember it’s THEIR tax, like if Walmart pays income tax you won’t see a Walmart income tax charge on your Oreos
you might reimburse them for it in the form of higher rates but they definitely pay it on every kwhr through each substation, in some areas it’s egregiously, others less so but it’s always there.

Plenty of taxes for everything already including Rhode Island’s 62% per kwhr electrical tax paid by the plant operators which is graciously and silently passed into your electric bill.


In terms of registrations, yeah I wish my state was that way, I might own a BEV so I could avoid the $37 of gas tax my ancient Honda pays every year,
but sadly the state wants to charge a big upfront title fee Alongside about 25,000 miles of road tax for the 5000 miles a year I drive.
Good deal and why I won’t own one.

As people move away from owning cars (as many millennials have already done) the sky high registration fees will eventually fail since there will be almost no one left to pay them.

 

[OVERKILL]

Bull, every US municipality pays substation tax and it will never be itemized on your bill.

Remember it’s THEIR tax, like if Walmart pays income tax you won’t see a Walmart income tax charge on your Oreos
you might reimburse them for it in the form of higher rates but they definitely pay it on every kwhr through each substation, in some areas it’s egregiously, others less so but it’s always there.

Plenty of taxes for everything already

I live in Canada.... It's listed directly below my username there on the left side of your screen.

 

[Rmay635703]

I live in Canada.... It's listed directly below my username there on the left side of your screen.

That explains that, Canada (as far as I’m aware) doesn’t charge anyone gas or electric road tax,

I really rather have that system since it doesn’t top load this issue and makes the government responsible for the overall tax rates and budget instead of small closets fighting to use up their annual budget before it’s taken away.

 

[tbm3fan]

Let's look at some facts.

First, Europe and China are pretty much going all in on EV leaving only North America as an outlier. Those are two very big car markets and when that big one can call the shots. That leaves GM and Ford out in the cold as Chrysler is European owned anyway. So if GM and Ford want to stay relevant they will need to get on the bandwagon or be left behind when it comes to EV technology.

Second, is technology that I just mentioned. He who has it is the winner and he who doesn't is the loser who will have to pay for it. I can guarantee that China intends to dominate this field above all others. China has already stated their 2025 plan to dominate bio-tech whereby you will be beholden to China for your health care. My background, in college forty years ago, was biology. Specifically genetics and virus. Today I am a doctor and believe me I know the value of DNA. There is a Chinese company siphoning up all the DNA samples they can get in the world and that includes here in the U.S. DNA technology will provide the building blocks for new specific medicines when combined with AI to work them out. They will be geared to whatever condition you are suffering from. The big bucks will then flow to China. So if you signed onto Ancestry. com and gave your saliva I can give you a guess where else that DNA will end up and you paid them. My DNA is way more valuable than that and way up in six figures at a minimum.

In my opinion bio-tech and EV technology should be on the same level as the Manhattan Project as our economy may well depend on it 20 years from now.