Is the recommended 0-20 bad for engine life?

[sparky123]

Use the same brand and blend. In our 2017 Nissan Rogue Sport the first two oil changes used the recommended 0w-20. Thought the engine sounded like a sewing machine. Thereafter, decided to use 2 1/2 qts. of 5w-30 and 1 1/2 qt. of either 0 or 5w-20. Smoother running, less valve train noise. Now the engine just purrs like a contented kitten. In the not too distant future will run only 5w-30 oil and I'm pretty sure I'll have an electric motor level of sound. (Jesting...)

 

[SwampSurvivor]

I'm running 0w-20 in a 135000-ish mile 24 year old engine spec'd for 5w-20

 

[stwremains]

As someone who has and has had several old vehicles I struggle to believe any engine makes it to 1,000,000 miles without an overhaul. But, maybe that's just me.

I think it goes without saying that it’s rare… I have personal friends with Toyota tundras and tacomas over 1,000,000 miles and no engine internal work. Peripherals yes. Hondas with 750k and up same story. One ford ranger with the 2.3 at 880k currently, all original internals.

Every one of these instances is a southern vehicle and they use 5w30 or heavier oil, and get changes every 5k or less.

Anecdotal indeed, but enough to convince me.

 

[stwremains]

I'm running 0w-20 in a 135000-ish mile 24 year old engine spec'd for 5w-20

Using a lower first number (winter rating) like 0 instead of 5 is never a bad thing. Just means more protection at cold start. What matters is the second number not being lower than recommended, and preferably a grade or two higher for more protection depending on the specific vehicle and usage.

 

[kschachn]

Using a lower first number (winter rating) like 0 instead of 5 is never a bad thing. Just means more protection at cold start. What matters is the second number not being lower than recommended, and preferably a grade or two higher for more protection depending on the specific vehicle and usage.

Actually it means an easier start and a guarantee of pumpability at the designated temperatures. The MOFT is high with any oil at cold temperatures, that keeps the parts separated.

 

[Mephy]

You are being too kind...

All I know is that my 2007 Mazda 6 (which has 150,000 miles) and my 2011 Ford Focus (only has 65,000 miles) have both lived their entire lives on 0 and 5W-20, and neither of them burn or leak any oil. The Mazda's body will definitely disappear before it's engine starts burning oil.
I have switched both cars to 0W-30, not because they aren't protected enough by an xW-20, but because my Jaguar specs 5W-30 and I don't want to stock multiple oils. I just happen to think 0W-30 is the best compromise.
Cheers

Any difference in gas after you switched?

 

[ltslimjim]

Use the same brand and blend. In our 2017 Nissan Rogue Sport the first two oil changes used the recommended 0w-20. Thought the engine sounded like a sewing machine. Thereafter, decided to use 2 1/2 qts. of 5w-30 and 1 1/2 qt. of either 0 or 5w-20. Smoother running, less valve train noise. Now the engine just purrs like a contented kitten. In the not too distant future will run only 5w-30 oil and I'm pretty sure I'll have an electric motor level of sound. (Jesting...)

I believe many get hung up on this anecdote. A thinner oil will not dampen the noise of the valve train as well as a thicker oil. Sound alone to the human ear doesn’t mean greater friction. That’s just a perception. That’s like saying the volume of a sound system has changed based on how well a room is insulated. Perception. I’m sure that analogy isn’t the best but just pointing out the fallacy of noise alone and drawing conclusions that less noise means less wear occurring. It’s possible, but not really something you can draw a conclusion about.

Making the change up to 30 from 20 might very well provide a little more headroom as far as protection, but that doesn’t mean it’s actually producing less wear.

An increase in protection level doesn’t necessarily = less wear measurable; as if there were a major lubricant related failure or lack of protection.

One would need to run a controlled test between the same engine with the same conditions seen and have as minimal difference in relevant variables as possible; other than two separate viscosities of the same oil brand / blend…then maybe a tear down could then be used to suggest degrees of significance if any.

That being said, there can be some practical reasons to step up a grade.

For example, someone has established with UOA data that there is a fuel dilution issue trending on a particular engine. It is to the point that the viscosity is measurably dropped and there is concern about the long-term effects of operating the engine with a thinner than required or recommended grade. In that scenario, one has a measurable and objective concern that moving up a grade could be called for. You want the operating viscosity to fall within the minimum required range for the recommended grade.

just my .02

 

[Yuk]

Any difference in gas after you switched?

Too early to know yet, I only made the switch in January. Maybe 8-12 tanks in the Ford and 4-5 tanks in the Mazda. Smoothness/vibration is about the same, but I think they might both be a little quieter... maybe.

I had Amsoil AMSOIL SEVERE GEAR oil in the Mazda transmission over the winter and just switched back to Amsoil MTG. That change alone should make a difference in fuel economy, so the engine oil change might be unknowable until I acquire a couple of years of data.

 

[sparky123]

Fuel dilution was also a reason for my "blending." On my first OC, there was a gas smell in the oil which concerned me. (I didn't send for a test because I change the oil more often than what others may deem rational/responsible etc...because I like to and thanks to BITOG, I have way too much oil. And lastly, an already thin oil to start becomes even more so w/gas to dilute it. ) Now a port injection engine not short tripped, that's a different story.

 

[doublebase]

As someone who has and has had several old vehicles I struggle to believe any engine makes it to 1,000,000 miles without an overhaul. But, maybe that's just me.

I feel the same way, in fact I don’t think many engines could make it to half a million miles without some sort of overhaul or at least have enormous oil consumption/misfires/check engine lights.

But the guy documented it pretty well on a Honda forum. He was a medical courier in Texas. I’ve posted a thread about here in the past, someone else did too. I’ve been in contact with him…he ran the engine (V6) with a dead cylinder for 70,000 miles to reach the one million mark (burnt valve), and replaced the entire engine when he hit his milestone. And he has since reduced his oil change intervals down to 7,500.

 

[Jetronic]

Hot take: 0W20 has been mainstream for nearly two decades worldwide, and has made a good reputation for itself as “good enough” for engine wear protection. 5W30 has been around much longer and has much more evidence to support its superior protection under higher ambient and engine temps, and withstanding more of a beating.

When it comes down to a reputable brand like the Valvoline Advanced that I use, and the only difference is going to be going with the manufacturer “recommendation” (largely imposed for cafe standards to eek out half a mpg more), I will choose 5w30 over 0w20 every time for engine protection.

That being said, I do live in a very cold climate and I need low temperature protection, so I do use 0W30 in winter as a compromise.

Simple answer: if you use what the manufacturer recommends and what it says in the manual/on the oil cap, and observe responsible change intervals, and treat the engine right in general, there’s a very high likelihood your engine will have a good long life. If you want to take extra precautions to hopefully make it last even longer, 5 or 0W30 is also a very good option that will certainly add more protection, not less.

Worldwide in north america and japan at least.

 

[Mephy]

Hot take: 0W20 has been mainstream for nearly two decades worldwide, and has made a good reputation for itself as “good enough” for engine wear protection. 5W30 has been around much longer and has much more evidence to support its superior protection under higher ambient and engine temps, and withstanding more of a beating.

When it comes down to a reputable brand like the Valvoline Advanced that I use, and the only difference is going to be going with the manufacturer “recommendation” (largely imposed for cafe standards to eek out half a mpg more), I will choose 5w30 over 0w20 every time for engine protection.

That being said, I do live in a very cold climate and I need low temperature protection, so I do use 0W30 in winter as a compromise.

Simple answer: if you use what the manufacturer recommends and what it says in the manual/on the oil cap, and observe responsible change intervals, and treat the engine right in general, there’s a very high likelihood your engine will have a good long life. If you want to take extra precautions to hopefully make it last even longer, 5 or 0W30 is also a very good option that will certainly add more protection, not less.

I agree with what you say, my car on the oil cap is written 5-20w but I put 5-30w.
The problem with thin oils, I think, is the abrasive problem of the particulate matter that can't be filtered by a full flow oil filter.

Since there is an irrelevant better fuel consumption I do not see why I should use thin oils (under 30w).

 

[picklyrickly1073]

30 is thin compared to 40 and offers irrelevant better fuel consumption I do not see why I should use thin oils (under 40w).

 

[cptbarkey]

You have alot more things to worry about keeping that car on the road vs engine oil.

 

[stwremains]

I agree with what you say, my car on the oil cap is written 5-20w but I put 5-30w.
The problem with thin oils, I think, is the abrasive problem of the particulate matter that can't be filtered by a full flow oil filter.

Since there is an irrelevant better fuel consumption I do not see why I should use thin oils (under 30w).

I could be wrong but I’m under the assumption that modern filters are capable of catching pollutants ands debris as small as 20 microns, with 99% efficiency, for at least 5,000 miles… 30 microns at 99% is about average for most filter brands I believe.
This is more than adequate filtration even with a thin oil. In fact, the “thickness” of the oil has little to do with its flow through filter media, though there may be a very slight increase in pressure to pass through the filter media - as long as the filter’s bypass pressure relief valve is at the correct spec for the vehicle, the oil should only be going through bypass on rare occasions.

 

[Mephy]

30 is thin compared to 40 and offers irrelevant better fuel consumption I do not see why I should use thin oils (under 40w).

One weight up the spec I mean

 

[Mephy]

You have alot more things to worry about keeping that car on the road vs engine oil.

To make it clear, what is written on the oil cap is a recommendation, not a requirement.

 

[stwremains]

To make it clear, what is written on the oil cap is a recommendation, not a requirement.

Yyyyyes and no….

Good luck with a warranty claim on a vehicle with an oil cap and manual specifies 0W20, and you’ve been using 10W50

I agree that using one or two steps higher to provide proper protection rather than go along with the mpg frenzy that thinner oils surround, it likely wouldn’t cause a warranty issue if it was even determined that a thicker oil grade was used…

 

[picklyrickly1073]

I don’t think the 0-20 is BAD but in some cases thicker could be better. However theres so many UOAs showing thinned oil and no concerning wear, and lots of folks putting on trouble free miles it makes me wonder what are you actually gaining with 5w-30. Maybe the engine and oil people have gotten to the point where normal cars just don’t NEED the thicker oil to have an acceptable service life, AND they can improve MPG with 0w-20. I don't think its right that the manual in the US only shows 0w-20 and the same cars elsewhere give more options, but I also don't think that makes 0w-20 inherently bad, depends where you live and how you drive.

 

[kschachn]

To make it clear, what is written on the oil cap is a recommendation, not a requirement.

And is a recommendation based on political influences rather than technical. The vehicle warranty is based on oil-related engine damage. No one is going to damage their engine by using an oil of a somewhat higher HT/HS as long as the winter rating is appropriate for the starting conditions.

A 20-grade oil is adequate for most engines under most circumstances. This is evidenced by many manufacturers back-specifying the grade to some older models. But as has been shown on here multiple times is that an HT/HS of 2.6 (20-grade) is the inflection point for increased wear without design modifications. This is what resulted in ILSAC GF-6B oils being given a different classification.

So are they "bad"? No, not bad. Are they generally adequate for many vehicles? Yes. Will a higher HT/HS oil damage the vehicle? No. Will a higher HT/HS decrease wear? Yes. How much and when is the debate, but it's still there.