Is synthetic worth it

[crazyoildude]

Johnny-b
I still think that dirt, condensation unburned fuel etc. has to be taken into consideration and not worth the chance of a major engine problem... Im not talking about an engine lasting 100,000 miles im talking 150,000-200,000 plus "most" engines today can do 100,000 miles easily on anything.. I agree that there are great synthetics that in a perfect world can go for years but in my personal opinion if something gets into your oil to contaminate it that theory goes out the window..
Just my opinion which is backed by years of engine experence but not scientific hands on in the lab per say studying chemical compounds and actual oil analysis. But can you afford to take that chance? Most people can't

 

[sangyup81]

I would personally change synthetic every 6 months because I like to change oil but Johnny's 12 month, 10k miles whichever comes first plan is solid

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
Johnny-b
I still think that dirt, condensation unburned fuel etc. has to be taken into consideration and not worth the chance of a major engine problem... Im not talking about an engine lasting 100,000 miles im talking 150,000-200,000 plus "most" engines today can do 100,000 miles easily on anything.. I agree that there are great synthetics that in a perfect world can go for years but in my personal opinion if something gets into your oil to contaminate it that theory goes out the window..
Just my opinion which is backed by years of engine experence but not scientific hands on in the lab per say studying chemical compounds and actual oil analysis. But can you afford to take that chance? Most people can't


I tend to agree. While I am a big fan of good synthetic oil, I also believe that junk, moisture, acids, etc should be removed. The only way to remove them is by changing the oil and filter. I learned a long time ago that what looks good on paper, and in theory, can often differ from what is really going on.


Changing oil a little earlier, is insurance for me. Wasteful, maybe, but for the few $$$ a year I might be wasting I have peace of mind. In the end that's all that really matters, what others think never bothered me. Opinions vary, but this line of thinking I believe has helped me over the years.

 

[ottotheclown]

You know 10,000 may work in some areas and not in others. WI. is not NYC driving is completly different. Having traveled in most of the USA. I can say this with some certainty,I can also say in NYC So Cal, even in places like Seattle the grind makes 10,000 oci a very risky thing. So what is the big deal about changing the oil????

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: ottotheclown
You know 10,000 may work in some areas and not in others. WI. is not NYC driving is completly different. Having traveled in most of the USA. I can say this with some certainty,I can also say in NYC So Cal, even in places like Seattle the grind makes 10,000 oci a very risky thing. So what is the big deal about changing the oil????

+1 I've had this conversation with a friend of mine from Bitog. A few rush hour trips into NYC, Long Island City, a rush hour drive on the Long Island Expressway, or even the Southern State Pkwy will change the way most people who live in Rural areas think about their OCI. I just came back from WA State, and would trade those roads and driving conditions any day for what we have here on Long Island.

 

[crazyoildude]

Hi Jonny-b what do you consider a higher quality synthetic ?

 

[crazyoildude]

I used to live on Long Island... Some say people that live on long island never leave, i did but i miss it

 

[Steve S]

Lon Giland!!!

 

[fendertweed]

Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
Believe what you want actually i like the way you think more people should think like you and do 10,000 mile plus oil changes.. That would further improve my business please spread the word..
Not based on science? I don't know what science you base your facts on and who was involved in deciding your "science" but 18+ years in my machine shop doing nothing except engines has taught me that you must change your oil more often than what your "science" tells you if you want a really long life for your engine.
Well Pablo that makes my opinion fact to me and thats all that counts.
However if you know of some "magic" oil that is not affected by the things i have mentioned than maybe i have overlooked something, but i personally dont think so.


here's some science ... data ... from real engines ...

I've done numerous UOAs on several cars over the past 17 yrs. ... EVERY sample of quality synthetic oil (Mobil 1, Amsoil, RedLine) that has had 7,500-10,000 miles on it has tested just fine ... in fact, close to as new.

And those analyses include tests for moisture, dirt, acid (TBN), viscosity, etc.

I don't want to confuse you with any facts since you have such a firm opinion and don't care what anyone thinks

but what the heck, someone else might find factual information of some use.

I don't think I or anyone else are saying oil isn't affected by dirt, moisture, or acid. We do have some empirical evidence, though, to support that high quality modern synthetics are not affected by it to the point where they don't work well after 10,000 miles of use.

 

[fsskier]

Well said Fendertweed, I enjoyed seeing your post, and the results of the oil analysis. Our 1.9 litre Escort and 3.1 litre Chevy apv tow vehicle have run 300 k miles, using 20K oci and Mobil 1 0W20. Now I could have changed oil 4 times more often but since both motors seem like new yet...... Why??

Neither of these motors have any particular reputation of being indestructible, so I suspect that my long OCI's are just fine for most of the "non sludge motors" on the market today.

There is a flip side to all this: When I first started using Mobil 1 in the 1970's it cost about $4 a qt, and dinosaur oil was generally 50c a qt. Now the difference in price and perhaps quality have become much less, and the GM oil monitors seem to think that regular oil is good for 10K or more miles in many situations.

I could probably be happy with dinosaur oil in summer and synthetic in winter..... but I only change once a year, so how would that work??

And, who buys oil by the qt, the 5 qt jugs make taking oil to the recyclers much easier!!!!

 

[crazyoildude]

Fendertweed,
There are too many situations that can and will contaminate engine oil i have mentioned a few in previous posts.. I don't want to beat a dead horse here but in a perfect world with out all the things i mentioned above maybe i would take the chance but even blow by on an older engine can make the oil smell like gasoline in a matter of 20 minutes, there are situations that come into effect that change all the rules. Is it possible to get 10,000 miles out of a good synthetic? In a perfectly running engine probably yes but again is it worth the risk?
My neighbor gets his oil changed only when his car has to be inspected (every two years) Uses whatever oil they put in and he puts around 10,000-12,000 miles a year on his car and only adds oil when needed. To my suprise he has 85,xxx miles on that grand marquis and the engine still runs good.. It really makes a difference from engine to engine on the same note i know someone who changes his oil at the 7000-7500 mile mark (he works here) and there was an oil related engine problem (bearings) due to oil dilution (oil sent to lab) Dont remember which one but it was due to oil dilution. I see motors all day with all kinds of failures but the one thing i am sure of if they change their oil at a more reasonable oci half of the engines would not be at this shop.. I tell people be safe rather than sorry.
We use mostly conoco engine oil in the drums here with no problems to date

 

[labman]

I plan to risk a longer OCI with the M1 in my truck. It sees very few miles, but most weeks I do get out on the highway long enough to boil off the gas and water. The engine never showed much sludge even when I was doing 6 month OCI's with SE dino. The Blackstone on my last Pennzoil YB looked good. You don't have to guess.

 

[Audi Junkie]

imo, there is NO substitute for physically draining out contaminates. Dino it is.

 

[sangyup81]

This whole debate shows that miles aren't everything when it comes to engine oil wear.

3K miles of stop and go in the city will do far worse things to oil than 10k miles of 90% highway driving in a clean environment.

 

[CourierDriver]

I change oil every 2 months or 10,000 miles, it cost me 40 bucks using M1, 10/.30 synth. Thats cheap and it includes the filter. I buy the 5 quart containers at wmart.

 

[BobFout]

Originally Posted By: CourierDriver
I change oil every 2 months or 10,000 miles, it cost me 40 bucks using M1, 10/.30 synth. Thats cheap and it includes the filter. I buy the 5 quart containers at wmart.


With all those highway miles, you could probably double that interval? How has the oil been at 10K miles?

 

[lexus114]

Originally Posted By: fsskier
Well said Fendertweed, I enjoyed seeing your post, and the results of the oil analysis. Our 1.9 litre Escort and 3.1 litre Chevy apv tow vehicle have run 300 k miles, using 20K oci and Mobil 1 0W20. Now I could have changed oil 4 times more often but since both motors seem like new yet...... Why??

Neither of these motors have any particular reputation of being indestructible, so I suspect that my long OCI's are just fine for most of the "non sludge motors" on the market today.

There is a flip side to all this: When I first started using Mobil 1 in the 1970's it cost about $4 a qt, and dinosaur oil was generally 50c a qt. Now the difference in price and perhaps quality have become much less, and the GM oil monitors seem to think that regular oil is good for 10K or more miles in many situations.

I could probably be happy with dinosaur oil in summer and synthetic in winter..... but I only change once a year, so how would that work??

And, who buys oil by the qt, the 5 qt jugs make taking oil to the recyclers much easier!!!!


I hear a lot of people mention this,But I dont understand why?

 

[ARCOgraphite]

No need for syn in the winter - its NOT significantly "thinner" nor does it lube better. It has a lower gell point. If you regularly start ungaraged at -25c then you need a block or pan heater anyhow, not an oil with a 5-7 degree C better margin of gelation/ pour point.

 

[lexus114]

I think it all comes down to oci`s. If you use conventional oil,change more often etc.

 

[fsskier]

Arco, there are no 0W30 dinosaur oils for sale at my local walmart. Now, compare 5W30 dino oil to 0W30 synthetic. The cold cranking viscosity of 0W30 synthetic is much less than 5W30 dino oil.

I need a block or pan heater??? Electricity is not available at my workplace, my ski area hotels, stores, etc. And I do not see a reason to hook up a drop cord every day in my driveway, burn lots of electricity, buy and install the gadgets required to do all this when:

I can just pick out a different jug of oil in the store!!

-25C is only - 13 f, thats not really cold yet. Most cars begin to really struggle to start at -20 and colder.

We had an official -40F here last year, and there is still an entire state north of us!!