Is synthetic worth it
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Originally Posted By: 2003f7
10,000 miles would take me over a year. This was meant to be me as the example. I still change my oil every 3 months due to very short trips. I looked at the UOA section and found some of M1 UOA around 5000 miles.
You've got a pretty cruel winter ..hmm..I'd really recommend just one UOA just to see how your oil endures the winter. I'll bet you're good for 6 months with your "over the wintah" OCI.
In your case the only reason I'd use a synthetic is your severe (by my definition) and harsh cold temps. Compared to your current cost profile you could surely save some money if using a synthetic was the only way to get you away from 3month OCI's.
10,000 miles would take me over a year. This was meant to be me as the example. I still change my oil every 3 months due to very short trips. I looked at the UOA section and found some of M1 UOA around 5000 miles.
You've got a pretty cruel winter ..hmm..I'd really recommend just one UOA just to see how your oil endures the winter. I'll bet you're good for 6 months with your "over the wintah" OCI.
In your case the only reason I'd use a synthetic is your severe (by my definition) and harsh cold temps. Compared to your current cost profile you could surely save some money if using a synthetic was the only way to get you away from 3month OCI's.
Originally Posted By: 2003f7
Is it really worth the extra cost?
Lets say you buy a new car or truck that takes 6 quarts of oil and keep it for 200,000 miles. Most people will not drive the same car this long but it is a easy number to use
With a OCI of 5000 miles you will need 240 Quarts of oil over the life of the truck.
If you use M1 @ $6.99 = $1677.60
If you use Havoline @ $2.99 = $717.60
The dino oil will save you $960
I don't think the retail value of a truck will be a grand higher just because it was fed synthetic oil.
The prices are from the AAP website and I think a 5000 OCI is a common one.
I have done the math and still use synthetic but that might change soon.
Synthetics are not worth it if your only doing 5K OCI. If your fixed on 5K then your wasting money.
But people in colder climates may not have that luxury. Or have cars that require synthetics. But I payed $5 for a 5qt jug of PP, cheaper than dino... why shouldn't I use syn?
$960 over a long period of time, say 10 years is not a lot of money.
Is it really worth the extra cost?
Lets say you buy a new car or truck that takes 6 quarts of oil and keep it for 200,000 miles. Most people will not drive the same car this long but it is a easy number to use
With a OCI of 5000 miles you will need 240 Quarts of oil over the life of the truck.
If you use M1 @ $6.99 = $1677.60
If you use Havoline @ $2.99 = $717.60
The dino oil will save you $960
I don't think the retail value of a truck will be a grand higher just because it was fed synthetic oil.
The prices are from the AAP website and I think a 5000 OCI is a common one.
I have done the math and still use synthetic but that might change soon.
Synthetics are not worth it if your only doing 5K OCI. If your fixed on 5K then your wasting money.
But people in colder climates may not have that luxury. Or have cars that require synthetics. But I payed $5 for a 5qt jug of PP, cheaper than dino... why shouldn't I use syn?
$960 over a long period of time, say 10 years is not a lot of money.
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Part of my motivation for switching to synthetic is that with longer drain intervals, I will be buying less foreign crude. I figure more of my money will end up in the pocket of ExxonMobil/s employees and less for Bin laden and Chevez. I figure I can double the drain interval using oil that costs less than half as much. My warranties are long gone. Using Mobil 1 is part of my recent buy American kick.
Originally Posted By: labman
Part of my motivation for switching to synthetic is that with longer drain intervals, I will be buying less foreign crude. I figure more of my money will end up in the pocket of ExxonMobil/s employees and less for Bin laden and Chevez. I figure I can double the drain interval using oil that costs less than half as much. My warranties are long gone. Using Mobil 1 is part of my recent buy American kick.
+1
I use syn for these same reasons. Higher quality oil = longer OCI = less oil consumption. It also helps if I can find dirt cheap syn on sale too. My family's cars are going on extended synthetic OCIs as their warranties run out.
Part of my motivation for switching to synthetic is that with longer drain intervals, I will be buying less foreign crude. I figure more of my money will end up in the pocket of ExxonMobil/s employees and less for Bin laden and Chevez. I figure I can double the drain interval using oil that costs less than half as much. My warranties are long gone. Using Mobil 1 is part of my recent buy American kick.
+1
I use syn for these same reasons. Higher quality oil = longer OCI = less oil consumption. It also helps if I can find dirt cheap syn on sale too. My family's cars are going on extended synthetic OCIs as their warranties run out.
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I think in my applications, it all evens out. I do 6 month changes (low miles) in my truck with PYB and follow the MM in the Honda (usually 8k miles).
I could probably get away with going to synthetic and do once/year in the truck, but I usually have to crawl under it to grease fittings, check brakes (rust, tires, etc) so why not change the oil too? Plus, it's PYB, which is a great oil and cheap. I'm not sure there is any real benefit to either.
I guess my point is, it depends on the application.
I could probably get away with going to synthetic and do once/year in the truck, but I usually have to crawl under it to grease fittings, check brakes (rust, tires, etc) so why not change the oil too? Plus, it's PYB, which is a great oil and cheap. I'm not sure there is any real benefit to either.
I guess my point is, it depends on the application.
If used logically (with longer OCI's) syns are a SLAM DUNK!
The synthetic being changed out early has clearly been shown by posters to stray the outcome of the cost comparison for synthetic verses conventional debate. One thing that has not been shown is the conventional being changed out early. Very few new cars will call for oil changes at 5k with conventional, now I would like to add my view on the big conventional verses synthetic debate !!
Real world post reading of BITOG shows average (wild guess here) of most new cars with OLM to give around 8k on conventional oil using the OLM, and that will leave 20% if my post reading has been calculated correctly. I know there are special circumstances on new cars that call for shorter OCI, add a turbo, etc etc...however this in general. What many people seem to do is use synthetic because of the long OCI going by the OLM which the manufacture set up to run, and has been proven to be extremely accurate. Now you have the vast majority of people (well not people, but BIOG posters) running synthetic oil which cost more at the same or less OCI than what the OLM is set up to run using conventional. So is a lot of money wasted ? I think so, you can get good deal son oil by using rebates, chasing sales down etc on synthetics, but in the end you will still spend more on synthetic.
As far as how the engine internals look, feel, or wear (normally calculated by seat of pants here, or even by sound at some discerning level) in real world the conventional will sever the life of the engine, synthetic will not lengthen any engine life if following the manufactures guidelines.
Yes I'm running synthetic in my accord which calls for conventional, just so everyone know LOL.. However I as well chase those cheap synthetic oil deals down, and I put the miles on..will it increase my engine life ? NOPE, will it allow me to be lazy ? Yes sir !!
Real world post reading of BITOG shows average (wild guess here) of most new cars with OLM to give around 8k on conventional oil using the OLM, and that will leave 20% if my post reading has been calculated correctly. I know there are special circumstances on new cars that call for shorter OCI, add a turbo, etc etc...however this in general. What many people seem to do is use synthetic because of the long OCI going by the OLM which the manufacture set up to run, and has been proven to be extremely accurate. Now you have the vast majority of people (well not people, but BIOG posters) running synthetic oil which cost more at the same or less OCI than what the OLM is set up to run using conventional. So is a lot of money wasted ? I think so, you can get good deal son oil by using rebates, chasing sales down etc on synthetics, but in the end you will still spend more on synthetic.
As far as how the engine internals look, feel, or wear (normally calculated by seat of pants here, or even by sound at some discerning level) in real world the conventional will sever the life of the engine, synthetic will not lengthen any engine life if following the manufactures guidelines.
Yes I'm running synthetic in my accord which calls for conventional, just so everyone know LOL.. However I as well chase those cheap synthetic oil deals down, and I put the miles on..will it increase my engine life ? NOPE, will it allow me to be lazy ? Yes sir !!
Originally Posted By: 2003f7
Is it really worth the extra cost?
Lets say you buy a new car or truck that takes 6 quarts of oil and keep it for 200,000 miles. Most people will not drive the same car this long but it is a easy number to use
With a OCI of 5000 miles you will need 240 Quarts of oil over the life of the truck.
If you use M1 @ $6.99 = $1677.60
If you use Havoline @ $2.99 = $717.60
The dino oil will save you $960
I don't think the retail value of a truck will be a grand higher just because it was fed synthetic oil.
The prices are from the AAP website and I think a 5000 OCI is a common one.
I have done the math and still use synthetic but that might change soon.
Most people I know buy the m1 in jugs for about 4.50 a quart. Double the oci then I'm saving money. Plus if I run into any emergency like overheating I sleep better knowing there was synthetic in there. It's true that conventional oils are better than they use to be, but then again the gap in price is also smaller, M1 for example is no longer 4 times the price of the Havoline you mentioned.
Is it really worth the extra cost?
Lets say you buy a new car or truck that takes 6 quarts of oil and keep it for 200,000 miles. Most people will not drive the same car this long but it is a easy number to use
With a OCI of 5000 miles you will need 240 Quarts of oil over the life of the truck.
If you use M1 @ $6.99 = $1677.60
If you use Havoline @ $2.99 = $717.60
The dino oil will save you $960
I don't think the retail value of a truck will be a grand higher just because it was fed synthetic oil.
The prices are from the AAP website and I think a 5000 OCI is a common one.
I have done the math and still use synthetic but that might change soon.
Most people I know buy the m1 in jugs for about 4.50 a quart. Double the oci then I'm saving money. Plus if I run into any emergency like overheating I sleep better knowing there was synthetic in there. It's true that conventional oils are better than they use to be, but then again the gap in price is also smaller, M1 for example is no longer 4 times the price of the Havoline you mentioned.
I do many short trips so my oil has lots of start ups and does not get real hot. So I run dino and change it every 3 months or 3000. I do not think synthetic would benefit me. So it depends on you driving habits. If I was doing lots of highway I would run synthetic on 7-8K intervals.
The add package for synthetics is usally better than con. oil except with the new Honda 0-20 oils same too with Toyota version.The advantage for long drain periods really depends on your driving. If you have a soccer mom routine you cannot go out to 10,000 or you could, and if you took pictures it would look like some on Bitog, of synthetics that failed keeping the engine clean. Just common sense re. this often discussed subject.
I just like the added piece of mind using Synthetics. Especially in today`s hot running motor`s,and the Cousin to the engine I have now is a sludger!
Originally Posted By: 2003f7
10,000 miles would take me over a year. This was meant to be me as the example. I still change my oil every 3 months due to very short trips. I looked at the UOA section and found some of M1 UOA around 5000 miles.
With the vehicles you have listed, you could easily go 4-6 months on a OCI, even with dino oil. An oil like MC will handle a 6 month OCI easily. A good Syn will go one year no problem. I am a bit west of you in WI, and I used to change mine in November and go through the winter and change it again in spring.
Although I did switch to Amsoil SSO last November, and I am planning on doing a once a year OCI.
10,000 miles would take me over a year. This was meant to be me as the example. I still change my oil every 3 months due to very short trips. I looked at the UOA section and found some of M1 UOA around 5000 miles.
With the vehicles you have listed, you could easily go 4-6 months on a OCI, even with dino oil. An oil like MC will handle a 6 month OCI easily. A good Syn will go one year no problem. I am a bit west of you in WI, and I used to change mine in November and go through the winter and change it again in spring.
Although I did switch to Amsoil SSO last November, and I am planning on doing a once a year OCI.
Alot of Dodge 2.7L engines fail at around 70K miles....See Below
http://www.carcomplaints.com/Dodge/Intrepid/2002/engine/index.shtml
I have used M1 5w-30 (yes the supposed worst one) with this car forever. At 153K I pulled the valve covers off and it was clean as a whistle. No I cannot prove it but judging by other experiences with this car the synthetic oil was a good investment.
http://www.carcomplaints.com/Dodge/Intrepid/2002/engine/index.shtml
I have used M1 5w-30 (yes the supposed worst one) with this car forever. At 153K I pulled the valve covers off and it was clean as a whistle. No I cannot prove it but judging by other experiences with this car the synthetic oil was a good investment.
2003f7 does have a valid perspective -for a lot of situations he is right.
I just want to note that there are all sorts of situations where a full synthetic engine oil can be a wise choice, for all sorts of reasons.
BTW, it will be interesting to see what the new oils later this years are like!
I just want to note that there are all sorts of situations where a full synthetic engine oil can be a wise choice, for all sorts of reasons.
BTW, it will be interesting to see what the new oils later this years are like!
I've always found it be a great asset as with the price of cars now a days I need to squeeze as much MPG outta my car/truck as possible. For myself I use my vehicles until it turns to junk or I just can't take it anymore.
Out here in Los Angeles gasoline is simply outraegous in price for a commidty that one buys and burns up every week. I need to keep the engine clean and as sludge free as possible.
It's well worth it in my book.
Durango
Out here in Los Angeles gasoline is simply outraegous in price for a commidty that one buys and burns up every week. I need to keep the engine clean and as sludge free as possible.
It's well worth it in my book.
Durango
Originally Posted By: live_to_hunt
I do many short trips so my oil has lots of start ups and does not get real hot. So I run dino ...
Those are exactly the reasons why I use a full synthetic!
On resale value, I've found that having records showing use of synthetics is a deal-clincher.
I do many short trips so my oil has lots of start ups and does not get real hot. So I run dino ...
Those are exactly the reasons why I use a full synthetic!
On resale value, I've found that having records showing use of synthetics is a deal-clincher.
Originally Posted By: Kiwi_ME
Originally Posted By: live_to_hunt
I do many short trips so my oil has lots of start ups and does not get real hot. So I run dino ...
Those are exactly the reasons why I use a full synthetic!
On resale value, I've found that having records showing use of synthetics is a deal-clincher.
This is exactly why I use synthetics also. Sub zero temps, lots of wind chill, and very short driving distances (1.5 miles round trip to drop the kids off at school). The oil never heats up enough to combat moisture and fuel dilution. Plus, better cold flow properties at low temps gives me peace of mind.
Originally Posted By: live_to_hunt
I do many short trips so my oil has lots of start ups and does not get real hot. So I run dino ...
Those are exactly the reasons why I use a full synthetic!
On resale value, I've found that having records showing use of synthetics is a deal-clincher.
This is exactly why I use synthetics also. Sub zero temps, lots of wind chill, and very short driving distances (1.5 miles round trip to drop the kids off at school). The oil never heats up enough to combat moisture and fuel dilution. Plus, better cold flow properties at low temps gives me peace of mind.
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What many people seem to do is use synthetic because of the long OCI going by the OLM which the manufacture set up to run, and has been proven to be extremely accurate. Now you have the vast majority of people (well not people, but BIOG posters) running synthetic oil which cost more at the same or less OCI than what the OLM is set up to run using conventional. So is a lot of money wasted ?
Sure, but it assumes that they'll rightly use the OLM to some sensible level with conventional. If the synth is the ONLY way the owner will follow the OLM to near the end of the countdown, is it wasting "as much"??? What if "fear factor", due to either the time or mileage expired, forced them to swap conventional out at 45%???
It could be a lot of wasted money and resources.
What if someone is a 3k/3m prisoner and a synth allows them the confidence to go 6k/6m?
What many people seem to do is use synthetic because of the long OCI going by the OLM which the manufacture set up to run, and has been proven to be extremely accurate. Now you have the vast majority of people (well not people, but BIOG posters) running synthetic oil which cost more at the same or less OCI than what the OLM is set up to run using conventional. So is a lot of money wasted ?
Sure, but it assumes that they'll rightly use the OLM to some sensible level with conventional. If the synth is the ONLY way the owner will follow the OLM to near the end of the countdown, is it wasting "as much"??? What if "fear factor", due to either the time or mileage expired, forced them to swap conventional out at 45%???
It could be a lot of wasted money and resources.
What if someone is a 3k/3m prisoner and a synth allows them the confidence to go 6k/6m?
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