Like me? I have gotten as far as putting in the M1. I have not let the March oil change go by yet.
Is synthetic worth it
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First off, with any effort, you can pay very little for syn.
I just put M1 0W-30 in my '99 Accord, which cost $12.00/5 qts after MIR, or $2.40/qt. If you believe Mobil's figures, the oil will save enough fuel over even a 5K run to pay for itself.
For the Subaru, I like GC.
You can pick it up for ~$4.50/qt from PB or AZ when they run an oil change special.
If you like PP, I have three 5 qt jugs at $1.00/qt after MIR.
I also have a few cases from Meijer at $1.49/qt on clearance.
So, while I like syn oil for a number of reasons, I also make a practice of finding it cheap.
I just put M1 0W-30 in my '99 Accord, which cost $12.00/5 qts after MIR, or $2.40/qt. If you believe Mobil's figures, the oil will save enough fuel over even a 5K run to pay for itself.
For the Subaru, I like GC.
You can pick it up for ~$4.50/qt from PB or AZ when they run an oil change special.
If you like PP, I have three 5 qt jugs at $1.00/qt after MIR.
I also have a few cases from Meijer at $1.49/qt on clearance.
So, while I like syn oil for a number of reasons, I also make a practice of finding it cheap.
Originally Posted By: rewote500
Alot of Dodge 2.7L engines fail at around 70K miles....See Below
http://www.carcomplaints.com/Dodge/Intrepid/2002/engine/index.shtml
I have used M1 5w-30 (yes the supposed worst one) with this car forever. At 153K I pulled the valve covers off and it was clean as a whistle. No I cannot prove it but judging by other experiences with this car the synthetic oil was a good investment.
The quote "the worst one" is stange. As you, a friend uses M1 5-30 in his 2000 Taurus Duratech and has 310,000 miles with 10,000 mile OCIs. He also claims it is very clean.
Alot of Dodge 2.7L engines fail at around 70K miles....See Below
http://www.carcomplaints.com/Dodge/Intrepid/2002/engine/index.shtml
I have used M1 5w-30 (yes the supposed worst one) with this car forever. At 153K I pulled the valve covers off and it was clean as a whistle. No I cannot prove it but judging by other experiences with this car the synthetic oil was a good investment.
The quote "the worst one" is stange. As you, a friend uses M1 5-30 in his 2000 Taurus Duratech and has 310,000 miles with 10,000 mile OCIs. He also claims it is very clean.
i dont care what anyone says 10,000 miles is too long on any oil there is the dust and dirt factor that gets through your air filter and oil filter, Condensation, acid and all sorts of other things such as the unburned fuel and additives in the fuel etc.
oil is cheap compared to an engine.
use the oil of your choice with a sm rating go maximum 5000 on dino and 7500 on synthetic Maximum
If you want to save money on oil and go 10,000 miles than when you need an engine spend that savings here..
oil is cheap compared to an engine.
use the oil of your choice with a sm rating go maximum 5000 on dino and 7500 on synthetic Maximum
If you want to save money on oil and go 10,000 miles than when you need an engine spend that savings here..
Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
i dont care what anyone says 10,000 miles is too long on any oil there is the dust and dirt factor that gets through your air filter and oil filter, Condensation, acid and all sorts of other things such as the unburned fuel and additives in the fuel etc.
That's not based on science at all. I know you "don't care what anyone says", but that doesn't make your opinion fact.
i dont care what anyone says 10,000 miles is too long on any oil there is the dust and dirt factor that gets through your air filter and oil filter, Condensation, acid and all sorts of other things such as the unburned fuel and additives in the fuel etc.
That's not based on science at all. I know you "don't care what anyone says", but that doesn't make your opinion fact.
Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
i dont care what anyone says 10,000 miles is too long on any oil there is the dust and dirt factor that gets through your air filter and oil filter, Condensation, acid and all sorts of other things such as the unburned fuel and additives in the fuel etc.
oil is cheap compared to an engine.
use the oil of your choice with a sm rating go maximum 5000 on dino and 7500 on synthetic Maximum
If you want to save money on oil and go 10,000 miles than when you need an engine spend that savings here..
Have you considered that some people do 10k in 3-4 months? There was a time when I was doing 30k-40k miles per year.
i dont care what anyone says 10,000 miles is too long on any oil there is the dust and dirt factor that gets through your air filter and oil filter, Condensation, acid and all sorts of other things such as the unburned fuel and additives in the fuel etc.
oil is cheap compared to an engine.
use the oil of your choice with a sm rating go maximum 5000 on dino and 7500 on synthetic Maximum
If you want to save money on oil and go 10,000 miles than when you need an engine spend that savings here..
Have you considered that some people do 10k in 3-4 months? There was a time when I was doing 30k-40k miles per year.
I have run 10,000 OCI on conventional !! Not on purpose mind you, however I have, and I would bet that I could do it regular with no harm to my engine, nor hurt the life of it. I can't imagine a manufacture setting up OCI lengths at 7500 miles (my Honda) and at 10K it would cause engine failure, nor lessen engine life. I know the manufactures have to have a safety threshold I don't think we are reaching conventional oil life using current OCI lengths, much less synthetics.... one huge problem is I'm not brave enough to be the one to test it LOL
I know that's why people do oil analysis, however I guess I'm to cheap, or it just does not interest me in doing so. I wonder one day will oil change be more of filter changes. If car manufactures had an easy way to change the oil filter without making a huge mess in doing so, drain off say 1/3 of sump while changing filter, then add oil, filter. This is what I see as the oil change of the future, I think we are going to see less, and less waste.. woes unto those seeking short OCI, I don't think it will be law, however I think it will be enforced with price of oil.
It may sound far fetched, however if a few items come into play. A OLM that monitored the oil in real time, and not driving habits set by mileage. It could be done, and any electronic gizmo like this would be expensive... that is until you spread the cost out over millions of cars, and profit of being green. Then have someone who changes oil to design the oil filter, and they method of changing it LOL not some engineer who looks at the engine before it's in the car/truck !!
I know that's why people do oil analysis, however I guess I'm to cheap, or it just does not interest me in doing so. I wonder one day will oil change be more of filter changes. If car manufactures had an easy way to change the oil filter without making a huge mess in doing so, drain off say 1/3 of sump while changing filter, then add oil, filter. This is what I see as the oil change of the future, I think we are going to see less, and less waste.. woes unto those seeking short OCI, I don't think it will be law, however I think it will be enforced with price of oil.
It may sound far fetched, however if a few items come into play. A OLM that monitored the oil in real time, and not driving habits set by mileage. It could be done, and any electronic gizmo like this would be expensive... that is until you spread the cost out over millions of cars, and profit of being green. Then have someone who changes oil to design the oil filter, and they method of changing it LOL not some engineer who looks at the engine before it's in the car/truck !!
Originally Posted By: rewote500
Alot of Dodge 2.7L engines fail at around 70K miles....
Oh [censored], my 04 Stratus 2.7 just hit 72k..
Alot of Dodge 2.7L engines fail at around 70K miles....
Oh [censored], my 04 Stratus 2.7 just hit 72k..
The way I figure, synth costs 2x the price of dino at retail. For the same cost, will you get a better result with synth at 2x the interval of dino? I say no. I'll take dino at 5k over synth at 10k. Even moreso when you push the distance a lil higher, like 6k/12k or beyond. I don't wanna hear about filter cost, they are good for the same miles with either oil.
Believe what you want actually i like the way you think more people should think like you and do 10,000 mile plus oil changes.. That would further improve my business please spread the word..
Not based on science? I don't know what science you base your facts on and who was involved in deciding your "science" but 18+ years in my machine shop doing nothing except engines has taught me that you must change your oil more often than what your "science" tells you if you want a really long life for your engine.
Well Pablo that makes my opinion fact to me and thats all that counts.
However if you know of some "magic" oil that is not affected by the things i have mentioned than maybe i have overlooked something, but i personally dont think so.
Not based on science? I don't know what science you base your facts on and who was involved in deciding your "science" but 18+ years in my machine shop doing nothing except engines has taught me that you must change your oil more often than what your "science" tells you if you want a really long life for your engine.
Well Pablo that makes my opinion fact to me and thats all that counts.
However if you know of some "magic" oil that is not affected by the things i have mentioned than maybe i have overlooked something, but i personally dont think so.
The fact is that not all people have time to take their engine into a shop and change their oil every 3000 miles. Some people don't even have time to do it themselves for that matter. Some people do 3000 miles in 2 weeks, some in 2 years.
If you do 10,000 miles in less than 3 months and your driving is mostly highway, I don't see how you'll have so much wear on a synthetic oil that it would be a problem compared to most cases where people do 3,000 miles in 6 months doing 2 miles commutes a day.
crazyoildude, your shop experience doing engines gives you valuable knowledge but your knowledge is restricted to people who have had problems. People who don't have problems don't go to you unless you failed to mention something here.
If you do 10,000 miles in less than 3 months and your driving is mostly highway, I don't see how you'll have so much wear on a synthetic oil that it would be a problem compared to most cases where people do 3,000 miles in 6 months doing 2 miles commutes a day.
crazyoildude, your shop experience doing engines gives you valuable knowledge but your knowledge is restricted to people who have had problems. People who don't have problems don't go to you unless you failed to mention something here.
Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
Believe what you want actually i like the way you think more people should think like you and do 10,000 mile plus oil changes.. That would further improve my business please spread the word..
Not based on science? I don't know what science you base your facts on and who was involved in deciding your "science" but 18+ years in my machine shop doing nothing except engines has taught me that you must change your oil more often than what your "science" tells you if you want a really long life for your engine.
Well Pablo that makes my opinion fact to me and thats all that counts.
However if you know of some "magic" oil that is not affected by the things i have mentioned than maybe i have overlooked something, but i personally dont think so.
I have no doubt at all you have seen some real cases where people went way past needing an oil change. Of course I know it happens. What I highly doubt is that those engines were run on good synthetic oil and they were at 10,001 mile OCI's.
The logic flaw I challenge is that the contaminants, the very nasties that you see, and clean somehow come from the outside world, so to speak. I say, and the science shows, these come from the oil itself breaking down. They aren't even close to primarily coming from unfiltered air, water, or even partially oxidized fuel - they are from the oil breaking down. Yes - the oil is breaking down from oxidation (heat/burning) and is challenged with dealing with fuel, water, particulate, etc. However, it a well made oil can deal with these "things" much longer than is assumed.
I think even the many, many years of synthetic oil UOA's posted here don't show even group III breaking down at less than 10K miles, and there certainly quite a few 12K+ UOA's, in a variety of engines and abusive situations - guess what? Oil in fine shape, engines clean.
The "things" you mentioned are real, but they aren't magic, they aren't monsters - they do happen, but not at the rapid uncontrolled rate some of the oil marketers want you to think with their sludge dump commercials and 3K OCI's. Using a good oil, knowing your engine and conditions will lead to a "really long life for your engine."
I really applaud someone such as yourself taking the time to learn about oil. It's actually rare - some shop owners just have their mind made up, not open to thoughts about tribology.
Believe what you want actually i like the way you think more people should think like you and do 10,000 mile plus oil changes.. That would further improve my business please spread the word..
Not based on science? I don't know what science you base your facts on and who was involved in deciding your "science" but 18+ years in my machine shop doing nothing except engines has taught me that you must change your oil more often than what your "science" tells you if you want a really long life for your engine.
Well Pablo that makes my opinion fact to me and thats all that counts.
However if you know of some "magic" oil that is not affected by the things i have mentioned than maybe i have overlooked something, but i personally dont think so.
I have no doubt at all you have seen some real cases where people went way past needing an oil change. Of course I know it happens. What I highly doubt is that those engines were run on good synthetic oil and they were at 10,001 mile OCI's.
The logic flaw I challenge is that the contaminants, the very nasties that you see, and clean somehow come from the outside world, so to speak. I say, and the science shows, these come from the oil itself breaking down. They aren't even close to primarily coming from unfiltered air, water, or even partially oxidized fuel - they are from the oil breaking down. Yes - the oil is breaking down from oxidation (heat/burning) and is challenged with dealing with fuel, water, particulate, etc. However, it a well made oil can deal with these "things" much longer than is assumed.
I think even the many, many years of synthetic oil UOA's posted here don't show even group III breaking down at less than 10K miles, and there certainly quite a few 12K+ UOA's, in a variety of engines and abusive situations - guess what? Oil in fine shape, engines clean.
The "things" you mentioned are real, but they aren't magic, they aren't monsters - they do happen, but not at the rapid uncontrolled rate some of the oil marketers want you to think with their sludge dump commercials and 3K OCI's. Using a good oil, knowing your engine and conditions will lead to a "really long life for your engine."
I really applaud someone such as yourself taking the time to learn about oil. It's actually rare - some shop owners just have their mind made up, not open to thoughts about tribology.
It would take me almost 20 years to get 200K...so 900.00 bucks saved. Its alot of money but is it really worth it to go cheap.
You will notice in my signature it say I change my oil at 10K. If there were enough room to type everything I wanted to say, it would of said 10K or 12 months, which ever comes first. I will be changing this spring at the 12 month mark, but the oil in the car will only have around 5.5K on it. If I get to 10K in 3,4,5, or 6 months, it gets changed at 10K.
My wife's 06 Corolla uses PP and I have been dumping it every 5k. Based on what you guys are saying, going 10k on that oil along with the oil filter going that long is okay? She puts "regular" amount of miles on it, where if I were to think about going 10k on it, it would probably take 10 months for that to happen. My car on the other hand, I just change it out every 5k with regular oil, being that since I have a take home car, I don't drive my personal car a lot. So are you guys saying that I wouldn't encounter any more possibility of sludge or increased engine wear by going an extra 5k on that synthetic? I guess I need to keep up with the times and believe that.
Originally Posted By: GROUCHO MARX
Try Super Tech synthetic
You know, I was considering this option then I went to WalMart and found that Rotella T6 synthetic 5w40 was only $2.50 more than the SuperTech and could not justify using the SuperTech when such a great product was only a little more.
Try Super Tech synthetic
You know, I was considering this option then I went to WalMart and found that Rotella T6 synthetic 5w40 was only $2.50 more than the SuperTech and could not justify using the SuperTech when such a great product was only a little more.
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