My oldest son drives a 96 Toyota Rav4. As he was getting ready to return to college yesterday, I noticed that his car was louder then normal. After crawling underneath, I notice that the catalytic converter pipe was leaking and needs to be replaced. I took the car to Midas and they confirmed what I suspected. I was given an estimate for the catalytic converter and the rear muffler from $800-$1,000. OUCH. I did not have the work done. I looked up the parts and discovered that I can get everything for around $360. I have a variety of tools to tackle this job. I don't have a torch, but I have a saws-all, side grinder, dremel, etc. for cutting off the old stuff. The pipes are connected with flanges with gaskets and nuts an bolts. Is this too difficult to tackle?
Is Replacing a Muffler Difficult?
- Thread starter Dagwood
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Take it to an honest exhaust shop, and have them custom make the exhaust.
Midas or those chain shops are going to rip you off.
Call around in your phone book, we have two or three real honest shops around here that do great work.
You aren't going to get a deal ordering pipes yourself and thinking you are going to do it yourself in the driveway.
Midas or those chain shops are going to rip you off.
Call around in your phone book, we have two or three real honest shops around here that do great work.
You aren't going to get a deal ordering pipes yourself and thinking you are going to do it yourself in the driveway.
+1 on Justin's advice. You can get away with minor driveway repairs if you have a welder and some tools. But if you need the whole exhaust system, you'll be better off finding a local muffler shop. I'd never take a vehicle to Midas, Mineke, or anything of the sort.
Agreed. An independent exhaust shop will give you a better price and better work too.
Speaking of mufflers. The muffler strap on my old trusty Saturn SL rusted and broke off and the muffler is hanging there bouncing up and down. A new strap is 50 bucks! At this point, if the muffler strap is rusting off, should I start thinking about just having a new muffler put on? It is really rusty everywhere. About how much should it cost just to have a muffler purchased and installed, not the catalytic converter, etc.
Originally Posted By: Saturn_Fan
Speaking of mufflers. The muffler strap on my old trusty Saturn SL rusted and broke off and the muffler is hanging there bouncing up and down. A new strap is 50 bucks! At this point, if the muffler strap is rusting off, should I start thinking about just having a new muffler put on? It is really rusty everywhere. About how much should it cost just to have a muffler purchased and installed, not the catalytic converter, etc.
If there aren't any leaks, take it to an independent shop and see what it will cost for them to install a standard aftermarket strap. It should be cheap.
Speaking of mufflers. The muffler strap on my old trusty Saturn SL rusted and broke off and the muffler is hanging there bouncing up and down. A new strap is 50 bucks! At this point, if the muffler strap is rusting off, should I start thinking about just having a new muffler put on? It is really rusty everywhere. About how much should it cost just to have a muffler purchased and installed, not the catalytic converter, etc.
If there aren't any leaks, take it to an independent shop and see what it will cost for them to install a standard aftermarket strap. It should be cheap.
I usually drive the cars up on paver bricks when I work on them. We have a lot left over from a brick walk we put in a few years back. I guess I could call around and get more estimates. The parts I could order are made by Bosal and seem to be of good quality and I do have a heated garage. I was able to patch the exhaust pipe as a temporary fix, but it needs to be fixed properly.
It can wait for a few weeks.
Thanks for your suggestions. I will call around for some estimates. It sure is tempting to try on my own though.
It can wait for a few weeks.
Thanks for your suggestions. I will call around for some estimates. It sure is tempting to try on my own though.
I agree about staying out of Meinekee, but I would also be likely to buy a Walker system and install it myself. If you replace everything, it's not so bad to do yourself. I can't tell you how many times I've seen someone try to install a muffler on old pipes. It just never goes well.
The Sawzall will be the main thing you need. An impact wrench for rusted nuts would be helpful. The dremel is too light weight to be of any help, but a die grinder with cut-off blade will help if you need to slot an exterior collar.
Go to the Toyota and pay the price, I have done Toyotas oem and after market ,what ever the toyota price .The Toyota is an exact perfect bolt on fit e z and fast to install.and the best quality fot the $$$
I AM an independent small town muffler shop! Sounds like Midas is gonna hit you without any lube! As Cat and pipes forward are stainless steel they seldom ever go bad. I'd expect to replace extension pipe after cat, muffler, and tail pipe, but continue using present cat. Even consideritg how cheap I work (those 3 pieces would run about $110.00 installed), even there in yankee land it shouldn't run over $200-250. Cat is $130. here installed.
Bob
Bob
Allways get a kick out of fixing amatures screwup though! Usually charge as much labor to properly install their butchered new parts as I'd charge for my parts and labor.
Wonder if I paid a tad too much when I paid about 250.00 for exhaust replacment(cat back) when my old car got rear ended. The pipe was all bent in various places and rattling BADLY against the frame.
They are a good honest that I have seen. Loved how smooth and quiet my car was after though.
They are a good honest that I have seen. Loved how smooth and quiet my car was after though.
alreadygone - Thanks for the advise. I will look for a local independent.
Before the Cat there is a heat shield. It was rattling, so my son put a pipe clamp on it to make it quiet. He must have tightened it down too hard, because that is what caused the leak. It would make good sense just to replace that section of pipe.
Before the Cat there is a heat shield. It was rattling, so my son put a pipe clamp on it to make it quiet. He must have tightened it down too hard, because that is what caused the leak. It would make good sense just to replace that section of pipe.
As others have said, getting the old stuff off, and getting the car up are the two hardest parts.
When I got a Borla exhaust for my SVT Contour, I took the car to a local indie muffler shop where I've had other work done, and asked them to replace the fasteners where the cat-back system would bolt up.
They put it on the lift, worked off the old fasteners and put new ones in, just tight enough to drive the 1/4 to 1/2 mile back home and took $20 from my wallet.
This was the easiest exhaust change I've ever done.
So if you want to buy the pieces yourself, it may be worth your while to have your exhaust shop replace the fasteners where you are going to start replacing the pipes.
But I echo the props for many indie exhaust shops. They do great work and don't charge what the name brands charge.
When I got a Borla exhaust for my SVT Contour, I took the car to a local indie muffler shop where I've had other work done, and asked them to replace the fasteners where the cat-back system would bolt up.
They put it on the lift, worked off the old fasteners and put new ones in, just tight enough to drive the 1/4 to 1/2 mile back home and took $20 from my wallet.
This was the easiest exhaust change I've ever done.
So if you want to buy the pieces yourself, it may be worth your while to have your exhaust shop replace the fasteners where you are going to start replacing the pipes.
But I echo the props for many indie exhaust shops. They do great work and don't charge what the name brands charge.
Kestas
Staff member
There are different grades of stainless used in the exhaust system - some are better than others. 321 stainless steel (18%Cr-8%Ni) is the best that can be used before going to Inconel or titanium. The japanese favor it for their cars.
The US market uses mainly 409 stainless steel (11%Cr), which is the cheapest stainless that can be used. If you keep a car past the 150K mark, the cat converters sometimes need to be replaced because of corrosion.
One way to tell which alloy is used is by using a magnet. 409 ss is magnetic - 321 ss is not.
Stainless steels in exhaust systems have a unique problem. The steel can fail from intergranular corrosion adjacent to the welds. I worked in a lab where we were fighting the steel suppliers to get rid of this problem. It could have been solved by adding only tiny amounts of titanium to the alloy. In spite of all the good data we showed them where this would have been a cheap fix, for some reason they put up a lot of resistance to this cheap fix.
The US market uses mainly 409 stainless steel (11%Cr), which is the cheapest stainless that can be used. If you keep a car past the 150K mark, the cat converters sometimes need to be replaced because of corrosion.
One way to tell which alloy is used is by using a magnet. 409 ss is magnetic - 321 ss is not.
Stainless steels in exhaust systems have a unique problem. The steel can fail from intergranular corrosion adjacent to the welds. I worked in a lab where we were fighting the steel suppliers to get rid of this problem. It could have been solved by adding only tiny amounts of titanium to the alloy. In spite of all the good data we showed them where this would have been a cheap fix, for some reason they put up a lot of resistance to this cheap fix.
My son and I replaced the exhaust from the headers back on his 92 F150, and it looked like it might have been the stock exhaust. Being an I6 it wasn't too bad. I hacksawed off some of the clamps, and then had my son carefully score the muffler pipe with a Dremel cutoff tool down to where the pipes stopped overlapping, with instructions to not cut into the pipe underneath. It worked very well as the old rusty pipe peeled right off with some slip joint pliers. I think all of the parts ended up costing almost a $70. A fancy stainless exhaust system would have been a lot more, especially a trendy loud one.
I have a similar question. The exhaust on the 88 Prelude Si 4WS has rusted through completley. So, I was looking to replace it from the headers all the way to the exhaust tip. Problem is that I have 4WS, which means I have a steering rack in the rear to steer the rear wheels. All of the places I took it, only had exhaust for the regular Prelude, but not for the 4WS. Honda wants almost $1000 just for the parts.
I was wondering, if I bought aftermarket, like Walker, or what not, for the regular Prelude and then had someone bend the downpipe to go around the rear steering rack, if that would work.
It seems like a lot if shops do not know of 4WS's existence, they get these wild eyes when they see 2 steering racks on the car from the 80's. They have all heard of GM's quadra steer, but never seen a 20 year old Honda with one.
I was wondering, if I bought aftermarket, like Walker, or what not, for the regular Prelude and then had someone bend the downpipe to go around the rear steering rack, if that would work.
It seems like a lot if shops do not know of 4WS's existence, they get these wild eyes when they see 2 steering racks on the car from the 80's. They have all heard of GM's quadra steer, but never seen a 20 year old Honda with one.
There's a local auto parts chain, VIP, that has an aisle full of exhaust pipe adaptors. 45 degree bends, 90 degree bends, 2 1/4 into 2 1/8, slip joints, collector adaptors, you can go nuts.
With a sawzall and enough of these adaptors and clamps, you can certainly get creative and work around your rear steering rack. Use the old esxhaust as a template.
Old rusty fasteners I have found to be no big deal, with an 18 inch cheater bar they either come loose or snap. At least 80% of the time they snap. But not in a way that I can't recover. If you're screwing into something important, like manifolds, a little antisieze might be nice.
With a sawzall and enough of these adaptors and clamps, you can certainly get creative and work around your rear steering rack. Use the old esxhaust as a template.
Old rusty fasteners I have found to be no big deal, with an 18 inch cheater bar they either come loose or snap. At least 80% of the time they snap. But not in a way that I can't recover. If you're screwing into something important, like manifolds, a little antisieze might be nice.
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