Is engine cleanness being overblown?

[dsmith41]

Especially with the release of Pennzoil Ultra and the SN/GN-5 specs, it seems engine cleanness is being pushed pretty hard. But I am wondering how much it really matters.

In the picture of the two pistons that Pennzoil shows in all their Ultra advertisements, the piston representing Ultra just seems to have a little less varnish than the piston representing Platinum. Is a little varnish really going to hurt anything? As long as there is no sludge or solids in the engine, how is it really going to matter?

If I had to pick a favorite brand, I guess it would be SOPUS but if you haven't figured it out, I am not sold on Ultra. Why pay so much for a new oil when the old Platinum is still a great performing lubricant that keeps things quite clean as well?

 

[tig1]

A little varnish is one thing, a lot of thick sludge is another. I wouldn't an aircraft engine sludged up that I was flying in, so I don't want my auto engine sludged up either. I perfer clean as opposed to dirty.

 

[badnews]

Clean translates into a lot of other things
cool for example, when an engine is clean it runs cooler as it isn't insulated (heat held in ) by sludge and grime.

Clean translates into well lubed also as the lubricate does not have to take alternate paths and can follow prescribed oil run ways .

 

[ueberooo]

Definitely! I actually rather like mine mostly dirty--- coated in Molybdenum and goopy black oil!

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: dsmith41
Especially with the release of Pennzoil Ultra and the SN/GN-5 specs, it seems engine cleanness is being pushed pretty hard. But I am wondering how much it really matters.

In the picture of the two pistons that Pennzoil shows in all their Ultra advertisements, the piston representing Ultra just seems to have a little less varnish than the piston representing Platinum. Is a little varnish really going to hurt anything? As long as there is no sludge or solids in the engine, how is it really going to matter?

If I had to pick a favorite brand, I guess it would be SOPUS but if you haven't figured it out, I am not sold on Ultra. Why pay so much for a new oil when the old Platinum is still a great performing lubricant that keeps things quite clean as well?


I agree.

 

[dsmith41]

I agree about the sludge, that's a no-brainer. But if my engines are not "factory clean" does that mean they are going to explode? C'mon.

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: dsmith41
I agree about the sludge, that's a no-brainer. But if my engines are not "factory clean" does that mean they are going to explode? C'mon.


No.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: dsmith41
I agree about the sludge, that's a no-brainer. But if my engines are not "factory clean" does that mean they are going to explode? C'mon.

Between emissions standards, fuel economy standards, pressure on manufacturers to extend OCIs, the increasing use of direct injection and turbocharging, and the shoddy maintenance habits of so many people, you can never have too much cleanliness in an oil.

 

[ueberooo]

Originally Posted By: badnews
Clean translates into a lot of other things
cool for example, when an engine is clean it runs cooler as it isn't insulated (heat held in ) by sludge and grime


You risk losing efficiency; I would only agree if overheating were a problem (if i lived in death valley, TX, or various hot states).

Hotter engines--within limits--are generally more efficient than the same engine running at a much colder temperature. If thermal losses are very great, engine can't theoretically achieve a very high mechanical efficiency because so much power goes out in the form of heat (loss to the environment) rather than mechanical energy.

 

[Spector]

Sort of agree, there are a zillion engines out there running with lots of varnish and build up with 200,000 plus miles and still running. Appears that only the really heavy duty sludge kills them and few develop that.

 

[buster]

It really depends on the engine. Ultra/M1 etc. are really for high performance engines, or people that drive very hard and see high rpms.

Most engines don't need these types of oils, so you are correct in that your basic SM/SN oil is all one needs.

 

[Gary Allan]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: dsmith41
I agree about the sludge, that's a no-brainer. But if my engines are not "factory clean" does that mean they are going to explode? C'mon.

Between emissions standards, fuel economy standards, pressure on manufacturers to extend OCIs, the increasing use of direct injection and turbocharging, and the shoddy maintenance habits of so many people, you can never have too much cleanliness in an oil.


I tend to agree. You lay the ground work for future needs in advance of need. There's no telling what GF5 will enable in obscure engine design that requires these features just to keep up.

 

[ZZman]

Cleaner would mean less possible sticking of rings and lifters etc...

 

[daves87rs]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: dsmith41
I agree about the sludge, that's a no-brainer. But if my engines are not "factory clean" does that mean they are going to explode? C'mon.

Between emissions standards, fuel economy standards, pressure on manufacturers to extend OCIs, the increasing use of direct injection and turbocharging, and the shoddy maintenance habits of so many people, you can never have too much cleanliness in an oil.



So true...

 

[wwillson]

Many people are keeping their cars longer and putting on more miles. I like to keep a car for 10 years and as many miles as I get in that time frame. I have always held the belief that modern engines, unless horribly abused, don't wear out. Instead, they die because they get deposits that eventually make the rings stick, have less oil flow, and run hotter. These deposit related illnesses are what eventually kill the engines. Yes I do believe if you are going to keep a vehicle for an extended period of time, then you should keep your engine as clean as possible.

Wayne

 

[ProStreetCamaro]

I have to agree with wwillson here. Materials, machining and tolerances have gotten so good that for the most part engines dont wear out nearly as fast as they used to in years past. Over time rings get sticky along with other deposits to the point an engine needs a tear down and refreshed. Keeping rings free and deposits to a minimum i can see your average engine under normal use going 400K+

 

[Captain_Klink]

basically they do a marketing study to find out how to outsell the competition, and this is just a simple bone headed study that shows they can sell oil this way, so that is exactly what to do. i have looked inside my engines through the oil fill hole, and they look really nice and clean already. the corporation is OBLIGED to try to sell more, they PAY people to find out how to do it, and then away they go. basically in order to provide more money for the shareholders and CEO, absolutely NOTHING for you or me here.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Captain_Klink
i have looked inside my engines through the oil fill hole, and they look really nice and clean already. the corporation is OBLIGED to try to sell more, they PAY people to find out how to do it, and then away they go. basically in order to provide more money for the shareholders and CEO, absolutely NOTHING for you or me here.


True. If people are finicky about engine cleanliness (I certainly can be, too), run HDEO, instead of of the synthetic flavour of the month at over double the price.

 

[SOHCman]

Are you saying that a HDEO will be good (better) for engine cleanliness? More so than the wizbang syns?

 

[ZZman]

Originally Posted By: Captain_Klink
i have looked inside my engines through the oil fill hole, and they look really nice and clean already.


Except I think many engines are prone towards being clean and some to being dirty depending on design.

Plus a mere look thru the oil filler hole does not give a true indication of overall engine cleanliness.