Is engine cleanness being overblown?

[Steve S]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: Steve S
How come there are many many engines going 300,000 miles + 0n the cheapest oils changed at reasonable intervals? Look at the used oil analysis and voas to see what is in the oil and remember there are only a hand full of companies that make additive packages. I have spent 23.5 years doing fleet type work and have witnessed the insides of enough engines. My knowledge is beyond reading internet articles.

I won't dispute any of that for a second.

What you are saying is that the old oils were "good enough". That's totally fine to say. It doesn't acknowledge changing and emerging technologies and constraints that will put different stresses on the oil, nor does it mean there is no room for improvement. Thus, it doesn't bear on the question of whether Pennzoil's cleanliness claims are valid.


Originally Posted By: Steve S
Pennzoil isn't lying . Pennzoil is marketing .

Do you know what the difference is?
I am not saying anything about new or old oils The problem is lack of proper oil changes/maintenance. I can tell the marketing difference with out any problems.

 

[cchase]

I can't believe so much effort is being expended on these forums quoting Pennzoils "cleans up to xx% of sludge!". I think way too much stock is being put into these claims, frankly. I'm not saying they do or don't, but it's the equivalent of arguing over dryer sheet ad claims. "Makes your clothes smell 53% fresher", or maybe step up to the Ultra dryer sheet, "73% fresher than our leading competitor!"

Yes this is a site to discuss oil, but I would hope the discussions could remain a little more technical in nature instead of bantering back and forth about advertising claims.

Otherwise, carry on.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: Steve S
I am not saying anything about new or old oils The problem is lack of proper oil changes/maintenance.

Agreed. MY point is that maintenance needs are changing, so oil needs to change with it. You're right that habits are usually the limiting factor. We still need the right tools for the job.

Besides, it only makes sense for car and oil companies to make maintenance easier.


Originally Posted By: Steve S
I can tell the marketing difference with out any problems.

I was asking was if you know the difference between marketing and lying.

 

[labman]

Like everything else, there is a lot of marketing hype. However one of the few oil related problems I have had was the in the 81 V-6 Phoenix I had. I was running 6 month intervals with SF QS. The heads got so sludged up, oil was standing in the valve covers and not running down to the pan. Who know what kind of shape the rings were in. I never want to see a mess like that again.

 

[finalyzd]

What if it has little to do with marketing hype. I mean everyone says it is but how do you know? Ur just guessing really. Ultra,platinum,pyb are good oils just pick one and use it. I would pick ultra why becuz maybe it does keep my engine alil bit cleaner which I'm all for, 6 bucks more ain't going to put me in bankruptcy.

 

[J. A. Rizzo]

Originally Posted By: Garak
True. If people are finicky about engine cleanliness (I certainly can be, too), run HDEO, instead of of the synthetic flavour of the month at over double the price.


So would Redline diesel 15w40 HDEO be the cleaning-est oil currently available?

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: J. A. Rizzo
So would Redline diesel 15w40 HDEO be the cleaning-est oil currently available?

The people who will answer this kind of question with any amount of conviction are the people who don't know enough to know the answer.

 

[hate2work]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d

I was asking was if you know the difference between marketing and lying.


Do you know how to tell when a marketing exec is lying?

His lips are moving

 

[hate2work]

Originally Posted By: finalyzd
I would pick ultra why becuz maybe it does keep my engine alil bit cleaner which I'm all for, 6 bucks more ain't going to put me in bankruptcy.


That's exactly the way the folks at Pennzoil want you to think. Multiply that times a million people and they just made an extra $6 million, which goes right back into advertising. That gets done for a period of time, and then they "coast" with much less advertising and that's when the most profit is made. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, just be aware that when you plunk down that extra $6, it wasn't your decision, it was decided for you. Did you REALLY need to spend $6 more for oil? You know the answer.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: hate2work
Do you know how to tell when a marketing exec is lying?

His lips are moving

Ah, the power of old jokes. Resonance confused with truth. It's almost elegant...

 

[daves87rs]

Originally Posted By: hate2work
Originally Posted By: finalyzd
I would pick ultra why becuz maybe it does keep my engine alil bit cleaner which I'm all for, 6 bucks more ain't going to put me in bankruptcy.


That's exactly the way the folks at Pennzoil want you to think. Multiply that times a million people and they just made an extra $6 million, which goes right back into advertising. That gets done for a period of time, and then they "coast" with much less advertising and that's when the most profit is made. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, just be aware that when you plunk down that extra $6, it wasn't your decision, it was decided for you. Did you REALLY need to spend $6 more for oil? You know the answer.



Yep, very true. And with the way cars rust around here....

 

[finalyzd]

Originally Posted By: hate2work
Originally Posted By: finalyzd
I would pick ultra why becuz maybe it does keep my engine alil bit cleaner which I'm all for, 6 bucks more ain't going to put me in bankruptcy.


That's exactly the way the folks at Pennzoil want you to think. Multiply that times a million people and they just made an extra $6 million, which goes right back into advertising. That gets done for a period of time, and then they "coast" with much less advertising and that's when the most profit is made. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, just be aware that when you plunk down that extra $6, it wasn't your decision, it was decided for you. Did you REALLY need to spend $6 more for oil? You know the answer.


So Pennzoil ultra is no better then platinum? So Pennzoil just rebottled platinum. They didn't change the formula? There is no reason for the higher cost of ultra? Just they want more money? I'm curious

 

[fdcg27]

Consider typical owner non-maintenance.
What is better for the average mechanically unaware and unsympathetic soul, an oil that barely meets API SM, or an oil that exceeds all established requirements in many areas of performance?
If you were doing an oil change for someone as a favor, would you use the cheapest stuff you could find, or something that would last through the next round of neglect?
Now, this doesn't necessarily mean Ultra or PP, as good as both may be.
An ideal oil for the neglectful owner could be a 10w30 or 5W-40 HDEO.
Better than merely good is often desirable.
For those of us who are a little obsessive, we will in many cases opt for the costlier brew, even though most of us know enough to know that it isn't really needed.

 

[Patman]

Originally Posted By: finalyzd


So Pennzoil ultra is no better then platinum? So Pennzoil just rebottled platinum. They didn't change the formula? There is no reason for the higher cost of ultra? Just they want more money? I'm curious


Ultra is definitely NOT rebottled Platinum! We've seen the VOAs on here showing it's different. I doubt any oil company would ever try to get away with re bottling a lower priced product and selling it at a higher price.

 

[nascarnation]

If we didn't have varnish, we couldn't have BITOG OCD.
And how much fun would we have then?

 

[nitehawk55]

If any engine is maintained with regular OCI's you'll never have an engine failure caused by sludge or whatever you want to call it .

Honestly it surprises me how many fret over their engines on here . Overkill or obsession is what I would call it .

Sludge in todays engines is a rare thing and could only become an issue if the oil had not been changed in years . A bit of sludge collecting at the fill tube is normal because condensation and moisture collect there . It rarely reflects the cleanliness of the engine .

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: J. A. Rizzo
So would Redline diesel 15w40 HDEO be the cleaning-est oil currently available?


I wouldn't say that. It's certainly possible, but any HDEO from a reputable company will do a fine job.

I think the notion that synthetics help keep engines clean, and can clean them, is reasonable. However, if one simply wants one's engine to get and remain clean, there are alternatives to synthetics. Using synthetic with the sole motive of cleaning an engine or keeping it clean is overkill, I suggest.

If you don't have another overriding reason to use the synthetic, such as a turbo, wickedly cold starts, manufacturer requirements, and so forth, HDEO will clean at least as well. That being said, as others have pointed out, if you use regular PCMO and change it at appropriate intervals (whatever those intervals may be for the oil you choose, the specific engine's history, the engine family's characteristics, the type of driving, and so forth) you're simply not going to have a problem.

Engines that are known sludgers do not need a synthetic, unless one of the overriding reasons exist. The OCI merely needs to be shortened. If a sludger can be kept clean by, say, a 3,000 mile OCI on conventional, doing a 3,000 mile OCI with synthetic would be a waste of money and good oil.

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: J. A. Rizzo
Originally Posted By: Garak
True. If people are finicky about engine cleanliness (I certainly can be, too), run HDEO, instead of of the synthetic flavour of the month at over double the price.


So would Redline diesel 15w40 HDEO be the cleaning-est oil currently available?


I have never used a HDEO in an engine and my engines have always stayed as clean as engine can stay with the oil I use. IMHO.

 

[ZZman]

How clean is clean?

As mentioned earlier, is good O.K or do people want better than good?

I wanted to try the Pennzoil Ultra to see how it works.

I can't believe so many people want to make out Pennzoil to be liars about their claims of cleanliness. Have you people spent millions in research, run test after test, did tear downs and comparisons?

People "overkill" on all sorts of things: Name brand clothes, fancy cell phones, TV's, food products etc.....They could have gotten buy on what people would say were good enough products but chose to go better or what they thought was better......so?

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: ZZman
I can't believe so many people want to make out Pennzoil to be liars about their claims of cleanliness. Have you people spent millions in research, run test after test, did tear downs and comparisons?

They think they are being skeptical and smart by dismissing Pennzoil's claims because they haven't seen sufficient evidence. That's a good thing. They just don't understand the difference between "I'm skeptical" and "Pennzoil is lying."