Mobil 1 advanced vs Pennzoil ultra platinum which cleans best!

[Bill7]

Another interesting question would be:
How would the engine cleaning compare given a choice of:

3 engine flushes with a solvent like straight hydrotreated cycloalkanes (STP Super Concentrated High Mileage Engine Flush)

versus

3 separate oil change intervals of 4k with a new 1 quart HPL EC 30 added with each oil change.

Cleaning criteria might be: Sludge, Varnish, and Piston ring cleaning.

 

[OVERKILL]

Another interesting question would be:
How would the engine cleaning compare given a choice of:

3 engine flushes with a solvent like straight hydrotreated cycloalkanes (STP Super Concentrated High Mileage Engine Flush)

versus

3 separate oil change intervals of 4k with a new 1 quart HPL EC 30 added with each oil change.

The 3 criteria might be: Sludge, Varnish, and Piston ring cleaning (I would Assume the HPL EC 30 would have the edge in Piston ring cleaning).

Personally, I'd rather use the esters/AN's for the cleaning, simply because there isn't the risk of elevated wear when using a fully formulated product.

 

[Bill7]

Personally, I'd rather use the esters/AN's for the cleaning, simply because there isn't the risk of elevated wear when using a fully formulated product.

The solvents will make the oil thinner during the 15 minute run in the engine, perhaps changing the 5W-30 viscosity into a 20 or 16 weight I'm guessing. But you raise a good point.

The only concern I have with the HPL EC 30 is it might be cleaning too slowly. The Dodge Durango BITOG thread showed there was a lot of cleaning going on even after 26,000 miles. The advantage of the solvents are quicker cleaning (possibly going from a badly sludged engine to a clean engine in 2 to 3 engine flushes which could be done the same day if desired).

Also, the "permanent" varnish that many engines have, not sure if HPL EC 30 or a solvent based flush would be better at cleaning varnish?

 

[OVERKILL]

The solvents will make the oil thinner during the 15 minute run in the engine, perhaps changing the 5W-30 viscosity into a 20 or 16 weight I'm guessing. But you raise a good point.

The only concern I have with the HPL EC 30 is it might be cleaning too slowly. The Dodge Durango BITOG thread showed there was a lot of cleaning going on even after 26,000 miles. The advantage of the solvents are quicker cleaning (possibly going from a badly sludged engine to a clean engine in 2 to 3 engine flushes which could be done the same day if desired).

Also, the "permanent" varnish that many engines have, not sure if HPL EC 30 or a solvent based flush would be better at cleaning that?

I'd expect the ester to be better at slowly cleaning up established varnish. But yeah, it's going to be a slow process.

 

[MolaKule]

The esters in the HPL EC clean slowly by softening most carbonaceous deposits. What I have observed is that these deposits get softened and dispersed into the oil and filter.

What I don't want are hard carbon particles sloughing off and getting into say VVT orifices by a "shock" solvent flush cleaner.

Varnish took a long time to deposit so it will take a longer time for it to be dispersed. Many of the areas into which varnish settles gets little oil splash.

Those hydrotreated cycloalkanes are seal safe when used as an occasional flush cleaner, but I don't like flushes for the reasons given above.

 

[Bill7]

The esters in the HPL EC clean slowly by softening most carbonaceous deposits. What I have observed is that these deposits get softened and dispersed into the oil and filter.

What I don't want are hard carbon particles sloughing off and getting into say VVT orifices by a "shock" solvent flush cleaner.

Varnish took a long time to deposit so it will take a longer time for it to be dispersed. Many of the areas into which varnish settles gets little oil splash.

Those hydrotreated cycloalkanes are seal safe when used as an occasional flush cleaner, but I don't like flushes for the reasons given above.

Thanks MolaKule and Overkill for your insight.
Thanks MolaKule for confirming that hydrotreated cycloalkanes are seal safe when used as an occasional flush cleaner.

One other related question: In your opinion, how much cleaning does doing short oil change intervals with any group III full synthetic oil (without using flushes or ester based oils)? There is a myth where all you need to clean up a sludged/varnished/dirty piston ring engine is to do several 3-4k/6 month oil changes like that.
It sounds reasonable, but not sure if there is any proof that this does any cleaning at all (like before/after pictures with the valve cover removed of someone with a sludged up engine who does short OCI's and then has a clean engine after that).

Please let us know your thoughts on whether short OCI's alone can clean up a dirty engine.

 

[4WD]

There's a reason many of these companies spend more on marketing than they do R&D. Most people don't know oil chemistry but will believe just about anything you slap on a label.

Post the numbers for us.

 

[MolaKule]

Thanks MolaKule and Overkill for your insight.
Thanks MolaKule for confirming that hydrotreated cycloalkanes are seal safe when used as an occasional flush cleaner.

One other related question: In your opinion, how much cleaning does doing short oil change intervals with any group III full synthetic oil (without using flushes or ester based oils)? There is a myth where all you need to clean up a sludged/varnished/dirty piston ring engine is to do several 3-4k/6 month oil changes like that.
It sounds reasonable, but not sure if there is any proof that this does any cleaning at all (like before/after pictures with the valve cover removed of someone with a sludged up engine who does short OCI's and then has a clean engine after that).

Please let us know your thoughts on whether short OCI's alone can clean up a dirty engine.

All oils have cleaners but it will take longer to clean an engine with frequent oil changes, depending on how neglected the engine may be.

HPL EC cleans slowly so you won't get instant gratification, but you will get a slow, methodical cleaning.

 

[Bill7]

All oils have cleaners but it will take longer to clean an engine with frequent oil changes, depending on how neglected the engine may be.

HPL EC will clean slowly so you won't get instant gratification, but you will get a slow, methodical cleaning.

Thanks for all your insight. It's greatly appreciated.

In your opinion, would solvents like hydrotreated cycloalkanes have any effect whatsoever on varnish
or is the only way to combat varnish to use an AN/Ester based oil for many years.

 

[TiGeo]

This is fron the SDS for the Liquimoly product.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Thanks MolaKule and Overkill for your insight.
Thanks MolaKule for confirming that hydrotreated cycloalkanes are seal safe when used as an occasional flush cleaner.

One other related question: In your opinion, how much cleaning does doing short oil change intervals with any group III full synthetic oil (without using flushes or ester based oils)? There is a myth where all you need to clean up a sludged/varnished/dirty piston ring engine is to do several 3-4k/6 month oil changes like that.
It sounds reasonable, but not sure if there is any proof that this does any cleaning at all (like before/after pictures with the valve cover removed of someone with a sludged up engine who does short OCI's and then has a clean engine after that).

Please let us know your thoughts on whether short OCI's alone can clean up a dirty engine.

IMO...the only commonly found oil which is advertised to clean an engine is M1 0w40. Other synthetics will not make an engine dirtier but it's highly unlikely they'll remove existing buildup. There's a bit of marketing which people get wrapped up in. "Keep clean" does not mean "Will clean".

 

[TiGeo]

Based on some of the discussion regarding flush products, here is a UOA before and after using the LM Engine Flush product. This dropped my viscosity a bit but not out of the 30 grade range which I was already in due to mainly fuel dilution with the 5W40 LM oil. This isn't causing any harm/issues idling this for 10-15 min in your engine. That is 6qt of oil w/500ml of flush, this isn't enough to dilute it a great deal.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

!OCD ALERT!

Leave the varnish alone! It even sounds good!

 

[Azimuth]

IMO...the only commonly found oil which is advertised to clean an engine is M1 0w40.

The M1 ESP line also claims to clean. Here's M1 5W-30 ESP and 0W-30 ESP, both of which state "Helps provide exceptional cleaning power", and the 5W-30 ESP page stating "Active cleaning agents", similar to the 0W-40 ESP page. Make out of that what you will.