Is ELF Excellium better than GC?

[buster]

Quote:

---

As I mentioned to you there is a lot of miss represented information out there regarding the use of “The Best Base Oils” used in automotive applications.

We try to deal in fact. What the truth is. All these base oils have a fit. One is not better than the other. You need to consider the application and the cost one wishes to spend on an oil. Our HTX Racing oils can go as high as $28.00 + per liter. Here again you don’t want to put this product in a consumer vehicle. There are many variables and all of them need to be considered to match the application and at what cost is acceptable.

Attached are a few documents which may help you clarify what is reality and what is not.

One small fact: Our Formula 1 cars use a PAO based oil. These V10 engines (V8 in 2007) go from 0 to 21,000 RPM in very stressed conditions. ELF has won both the constructors and pilots championship the last two years (2005 & 2006). Our Formula 1 racing technology goes back over 30+ years back to the Jackie Stewart days.

---

TOTAL Lubricants USA, Inc.



5 North Stiles Street , Linden , NJ 07036

Phone: 877.ELF.OILS (877.353.6457)

Phone: 908.374.5057

Fax: 908.862.6885



[email protected]

ElfOils.us (Automotive) ElfMoto.us (Motorcycle)


Herb is a nice guy. Elf makes some top notch lubricants. Email him and he will send you out some product brochures. Their 2stroke oils are ester based.

 

[Thatwouldbegreat]

Drove the Subaru on a long trip today.

Had tghe highest average MPG ever, and car ran great.

33 MPG at 80 MPH.

So I'm liking ELF Excellium 0w30 more and more!

 

[JAG]

Cool. I'm all about getting better gas mileage through oil choice without having to resort to really thin oils. Mobil 1 0W-40 has boosted my gas mileage over my previously used oils too, including Gold GC, Syntec 5W-40, Lubromoly 5W-40 and 0W-40.

 

[Thatwouldbegreat]

Quote:

---

Cool. I'm all about getting better gas mileage through oil choice without having to resort to really thin oils. Mobil 1 0W-40 has boosted my gas mileage over my previously used oils too, including Gold GC, Syntec 5W-40, Lubromoly 5W-40 and 0W-40.

---

I'll see how this oil does long term. I'm thinking of a used oil analysis around 7K miles to see if it is suited for 10K OCI's.

If the oil continues to feel like it is performing better than GC and the MPG numbers are higher; then I will be curious as to the explanation in the difference in performance.

The viscosity at temperature and HTHS of the two oils seems, during initial comparison, to be similar. Maybe the ELF 0w30 is thinner and like Redline behave like a thicker oil dynamically in certain areas of the engine?

I wonder if friction modifiers in the additve package could hold the explanation?

 

[JAG]

My guess would be a good dose of friction modifiers since the viscometrics do seem close to GC's based on the Product Data Sheets.

 

[dickwells]

Where is this oil available in the Midwest USA?

 

[Thatwouldbegreat]

http://www.turbofrogperformance.com/

 

[Thatwouldbegreat]

05 Outback is still at 33.3 mpg and the engine has never run smoother!

 

[buster]

Received this from Elf awhile back.

Quote:

---

Thank you for calling regarding our position on Group III, PAO and Ester base stocks.



As I mentioned to you there is a lot of miss represented information out there regarding the use of “The Best Base Oils” used in automotive applications.



We try to deal in fact. What the truth is. All these base oils have a fit. One is not better than the other. You need to consider the application and the cost one wishes to spend on an oil. Our HTX Racing oils can go as high as $28.00 + per liter. Here again you don’t want to put this product in a consumer vehicle. There are many variables and all of them need to be considered to match the application and at what cost is acceptable.



Attached are a few documents which may help you clarify what is reality and what is not.



One small fact: Our Formula 1 cars use a PAO based oil. These V10 engines (V8 in 2007) go from 0 to 21,000 RPM in very stressed conditions. ELF has won both the constructors and pilots championship the last two years (2005 & 2006). Our Formula 1 racing technology goes back over 30+ years back to the Jackie Stewart days.

---

 

[Thermo1223]

I just e-mailed Herb for some insight on my Rabbit's oil.

Currently using dealer Valvoline but I want to see if 5w30 while still meeting 502 spec would be better than a 5w40 especially if it offers increased economy!

I just picked up some 5w40 LDX for the Jetta & I am going to give it a whirl.

 

[JHZR2]

this is the oil that was OE in my 04 saab 9-3. Specced for up to ~18k mile OCIs on a 6.4qt sump. looked fine at 10k despite breakin. Should be a great oil.

I think (but havent mathematically proven) that Mobil 1 0w-40 provides a tiny bit less fuel economy, which would be expected.

I would potentially get this oil to use as a GM-LL-025-A spec oil, if the price was reasonable...

Mind telling us how much you paid at mail order, and how much shipping was?

I think there used to be an ELF oils sponsor... maybe not anymore.

JMH

 

[harrydog]

Quote:

---

05 Outback is still at 33.3 mpg and the engine has never run smoother!

---

Are you going to do a used oil analysis on this oil? If so, when can we expect to see it?

 

[RI_RS4]

In my tests with the Audi RS4 I saw no advantage of ELF Excellium LDX 5W-40 over any other Audi/VW 502 oil. It sheared, fuel diluted, and had high viscosity just like all the rest.

 

[RI_RS4]

Quote:

---

In my tests with the Audi RS4 I saw no advantage of ELF Excellium LDX 5W-40 over any other Audi/VW 502 oil. It sheared, fuel diluted, and had high viscosity just like all the rest.

---

Oops, I meant to say ... and had high wear numbers just like all the rest.

 

[JHZR2]

but there is a reason that your engine destroyed all of the oils... lets not forget that.

It borders on an apples to orange comparisson, because even a bad result on most any other engine with most any other oil isnt as bad as youve seen.

And Id venture to guess that the special oil that works in the RS4 can be beat in used oil analysis by others in more benign engines.

Its the right balance, the right match of the chemistry to the operating conditions and metallurgy. No one thingis the end all be all for all situations. Any engineered product is a compromise.

Unfortunately life is too short to fully characterize it by any one person, in a statistically significant way. What youve done is about as good as it gets... but itdoes not mean that the elf product isnt a stellar one.

JMH

 

[RI_RS4]

JMH, True enough. I've just seen absolutely no data, outside of marketing hype, which shows the Elf is a stellar oil. I picked it as the first oil to place in my engine, because of the marketing. I've learned.

 

[bluesubie]

Yep, the OP has an n/a Outback which would probably be slightly easier on oil than an RS4.

-Dennis

 

[Tones]

I found a decent price here, with free shipping over $50:
http://www.autohausaz.com/html/elf-oil.html

I have seen a lot of great reports with Elf oils. In fact, I havn't seen anything to make me think its not a great oil. No oil will consistently turn in stellar numbers with fuel dilution--all bets are off at that point.

 

[RI_RS4]

Tones, can you point me to some of those good Elf reports. There are very few on BITOG, and the only really good one I see is in contract to Mobil 1. If there's another site with more data on it, I'd love to see it.

BTW, RLI BioSyn posts consistently stellar numbers with fuel dilution.

 

[Tones]

Forum rules prohibit posting links to other groups, but check out the VW enthusiast boards like TDIClub.com. Those guys have scrutinized oils and Elf is one of the preferred oils for VWs. I have never heard of the oil you mentioned. Is that what you are using now? I would be interested in seeing some of those stellar numbers.