Is Cost the Only Reason Not to use OEM Oil?

[650NutKase]

What makes the OEM better? It's like my F150 manual says that it "recommends BP fuels" to be used in it. Around here we don't have any BP's. It's all about contracts and sales. Plus, what I think is funny is, people take their cars to the dealership for service thinking that they are getting the best, when in fact, they're getting bulk oil and in some cases bulk filters. Not that there is anything wrong with that either. There are just better oils out there for less $$.

 

[GZRider]

+1x10∞

 

[Imp4]

Originally Posted by GZRider
+1x10∞

Ironically, 1x10∞ = ∞, except when one ∞ is larger than another ∞.

And the scary this is that it's true....

 

[Skippy722]

I'll say effort is part of it... takes effort to go get OEM oil, I can pick up literally anything else while doing my grocery shopping in one stop.

 

[talest]

Originally Posted by Skippy722
I'll say effort is part of it... takes effort to go get OEM oil, I can pick up literally anything else while doing my grocery shopping in one stop.

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted by oil_film_movies
There are reasons to use OEM house-brand oil, and reasons not to. It depends on what's important to you.

Reasons to use OEM house-brand oil:
1. You know it works in your specific engine. OEM engineers probably used it in stress-test durability testing for your engine.
2. Quality control is good: The oil maker (Shell, Mobil, Castrol, whoever...) knows the OEM engine-maker is watching them. Maybe doing an oil analysis randomly. Big contracts at stake. Better make it consistently good or else.

You really believe that? I can almost assuredly say that the Toyota branded 0W-20 that I could buy at a US Toyota dealer wouldn't be the oil that Subaru used in the development of the engine in the 86/BRZ. Besides that, the oil formulation always changes with a new API spec. Also - there is no way that the big names don't have tight quality control.

 

[fdcg27]

A better way of phrasing your topic might be:

"is there any reason to use OEM oil aside from the warm and fuzzies?"

All OEM labeled oils are made by major blenders.
Does anyone really believe that Toyota knows more about formulating a finished motor oil than XOM?
This would be on a par with thinking that XOM knows more about how to build a hybrid car than Toyota.

 

[Jesse_NE]

Originally Posted by Skippy722
I'll say effort is part of it... takes effort to go get OEM oil, I can pick up literally anything else while doing my grocery shopping in one stop.


You can buy motor oil at 4PM on a Saturday from Wal-Mart or an auto parts store that will do the exact same thing to manufacturers specifications as what a dealer parts counter will only sell to you during bankers hours.

 

[ad244]

Originally Posted by y_p_w
Originally Posted by oil_film_movies
There are reasons to use OEM house-brand oil, and reasons not to. It depends on what's important to you.

Reasons to use OEM house-brand oil:
1. You know it works in your specific engine. OEM engineers probably used it in stress-test durability testing for your engine.
2. Quality control is good: The oil maker (Shell, Mobil, Castrol, whoever...) knows the OEM engine-maker is watching them. Maybe doing an oil analysis randomly. Big contracts at stake. Better make it consistently good or else.

You really believe that? I can almost assuredly say that the Toyota branded 0W-20 that I could buy at a US Toyota dealer wouldn't be the oil that Subaru used in the development of the engine in the 86/BRZ. Besides that, the oil formulation always changes with a new API spec. Also - there is no way that the big names don't have tight quality control.


Well Put

 

[bionictony]

its like brake pads. so many options available. i get my oils on clearance for $1-$2 a quart

 

[KrisZ]

OEM branded motor oil is specifically designed to work on a phsychological level. The marketing team, not the engineers, made sure to use the language necessery to generate a feeling of security, familiarity, assurance etc.

Once that set of mind is achieved, facts can be dreamed up on the fly to support the notion that an OEM oil must be superior.

 

[littlehulkster]

Originally Posted by fdcg27
A better way of phrasing your topic might be:

"is there any reason to use OEM oil aside from the warm and fuzzies?"

All OEM labeled oils are made by major blenders.
Does anyone really believe that Toyota knows more about formulating a finished motor oil than XOM?
This would be on a par with thinking that XOM knows more about how to build a hybrid car than Toyota.


Well, you say that, but Toyota oil in particular has a wildly different additive package compared to any off the shelf XOM product, so it's clear Toyota had some special requirements (and the bulk purchasing power to make it worth XOM's time) that couldn't be fulfilled by a normal product. Mazda is in the same boat, but they went with Idemitsu instead of XOM as their supplier.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by littlehulkster
Originally Posted by fdcg27
A better way of phrasing your topic might be:

"is there any reason to use OEM oil aside from the warm and fuzzies?"

All OEM labeled oils are made by major blenders.
Does anyone really believe that Toyota knows more about formulating a finished motor oil than XOM?
This would be on a par with thinking that XOM knows more about how to build a hybrid car than Toyota.


Well, you say that, but Toyota oil in particular has a wildly different additive package compared to any off the shelf XOM product, so it's clear Toyota had some special requirements (and the bulk purchasing power to make it worth XOM's time) that couldn't be fulfilled by a normal product. Mazda is in the same boat, but they went with Idemitsu instead of XOM as their supplier.


There have been so many different versions of TGMO though.... And depending on who was blending it, this also made a big difference. I'd wager the Group III-based TGMO product was significantly cheaper for XOM to blend than something like EP, with it's majority PAO base.

 

[littlehulkster]

Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by littlehulkster
Originally Posted by fdcg27
A better way of phrasing your topic might be:

"is there any reason to use OEM oil aside from the warm and fuzzies?"

All OEM labeled oils are made by major blenders.
Does anyone really believe that Toyota knows more about formulating a finished motor oil than XOM?
This would be on a par with thinking that XOM knows more about how to build a hybrid car than Toyota.


Well, you say that, but Toyota oil in particular has a wildly different additive package compared to any off the shelf XOM product, so it's clear Toyota had some special requirements (and the bulk purchasing power to make it worth XOM's time) that couldn't be fulfilled by a normal product. Mazda is in the same boat, but they went with Idemitsu instead of XOM as their supplier.


There have been so many different versions of TGMO though.... And depending on who was blending it, this also made a big difference. I'd wager the Group III-based TGMO product was significantly cheaper for XOM to blend than something like EP, with it's majority PAO base.


Sure, but that could also be more an issue of Toyota's requirements changing as CAFE and engine technology change. The current TGMO is a mega-moly oil unlike anything XOM makes either as their own products or for other branded jobs. Probably for the fractional MPG that's all important under the CAFE rules. Previous TGMO was probably just rebranded shelf oil.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by littlehulkster
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by littlehulkster
Originally Posted by fdcg27
A better way of phrasing your topic might be:

"is there any reason to use OEM oil aside from the warm and fuzzies?"

All OEM labeled oils are made by major blenders.
Does anyone really believe that Toyota knows more about formulating a finished motor oil than XOM?
This would be on a par with thinking that XOM knows more about how to build a hybrid car than Toyota.


Well, you say that, but Toyota oil in particular has a wildly different additive package compared to any off the shelf XOM product, so it's clear Toyota had some special requirements (and the bulk purchasing power to make it worth XOM's time) that couldn't be fulfilled by a normal product. Mazda is in the same boat, but they went with Idemitsu instead of XOM as their supplier.


There have been so many different versions of TGMO though.... And depending on who was blending it, this also made a big difference. I'd wager the Group III-based TGMO product was significantly cheaper for XOM to blend than something like EP, with it's majority PAO base.


Sure, but that could also be more an issue of Toyota's requirements changing as CAFE and engine technology change. The current TGMO is a mega-moly oil unlike anything XOM makes either as their own products or for other branded jobs. Probably for the fractional MPG that's all important under the CAFE rules. Previous TGMO was probably just rebranded shelf oil.


Could have been. I recall the Idemitsu version also being very high moly at the same time the XOM version wasn't. That oil definitely has a weird history.

 

[TiGeo]

I drive VWs. They use Castrol as OEM so why not just get it cheaper elsewhere? I use Liquimoly anyway. For my Ford, I use Motorcraft which I can get at Wallyworld.

 

[littlehulkster]

Originally Posted by OVERKILL


Sure, but that could also be more an issue of Toyota's requirements changing as CAFE and engine technology change. The current TGMO is a mega-moly oil unlike anything XOM makes either as their own products or for other branded jobs. Probably for the fractional MPG that's all important under the CAFE rules. Previous TGMO was probably just rebranded shelf oil.

Could have been. I recall the Idemitsu version also being very high moly at the same time the XOM version wasn't. That oil definitely has a weird history.


Well, Idemitsu does sell a similar mega moly oil (it is, IIRC, identical to mazda oil) as EcoMedalist Advanced Moly. Toyota probably switched suppliers either because Idemitsu couldn't do the volume they needed or because XOM could do it cheaper. I know Idemitsu still does Mazda oil, and I think they do Honda and Subaru still.

Were I to wager a guess, I'd guess that Toyota, being the goliath that it is, was able to buy enough volume to interest XOM, and XOM, being the goliath it is, can make it cheaper than Idemitsu, but needs that volume to bother.

IIRC, Toyota's branded oil in Japan is Idemitsu if the Russian oil guys are to be believed. That's probably just a matter of expedience and distance, of course. XOM's cheaper oil doesn't make sense when it has to be shipped across the ocean.

That said, if someone wants a mega moly oil, TGMO is the best deal right now. It's quite a bit cheaper than Idemitsu's moly oil, and much cheaper than Mazda branded, while being pretty similar to them.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by littlehulkster
Originally Posted by OVERKILL


Sure, but that could also be more an issue of Toyota's requirements changing as CAFE and engine technology change. The current TGMO is a mega-moly oil unlike anything XOM makes either as their own products or for other branded jobs. Probably for the fractional MPG that's all important under the CAFE rules. Previous TGMO was probably just rebranded shelf oil.

Could have been. I recall the Idemitsu version also being very high moly at the same time the XOM version wasn't. That oil definitely has a weird history.


Well, Idemitsu does sell a similar mega moly oil (it is, IIRC, identical to mazda oil) as EcoMedalist Advanced Moly. Toyota probably switched suppliers either because Idemitsu couldn't do the volume they needed or because XOM could do it cheaper. I know Idemitsu still does Mazda oil, and I think they do Honda and Subaru still.

Were I to wager a guess, I'd guess that Toyota, being the goliath that it is, was able to buy enough volume to interest XOM, and XOM, being the goliath it is, can make it cheaper than Idemitsu, but needs that volume to bother.

IIRC, Toyota's branded oil in Japan is Idemitsu if the Russian oil guys are to be believed. That's probably just a matter of expedience and distance, of course. XOM's cheaper oil doesn't make sense when it has to be shipped across the ocean.

That said, if someone wants a mega moly oil, TGMO is the best deal right now. It's quite a bit cheaper than Idemitsu's moly oil, and much cheaper than Mazda branded, while being pretty similar to them.


Yes, I'd agree that the product would certainly be cost-effective for Mobil to blend, given how it is based and of course most components could be sourced internally, if not all.

 

[DirectRejection]

Mazda had specific reasons outside of CAFE considerations for the design of High Moly MGMO 0W20.

I cannot find the information right now, but it had something to do with cold starts on the SkyActiv engine, with its adjusted valve timing and compression ratio.

This may have been the genesis of the concept of moly mitigating LSPI.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by Direct_Rejection
Mazda had specific reasons outside of CAFE considerations for the design of High Moly MGMO 0W20.

I cannot find the information right now, but it had something to do with cold starts on the SkyActiv engine, with its adjusted valve timing and compression ratio.

This may have been the genesis of the concept of moly mitigating LSPI.


One would think that IF this was really that important, that they'd develop a spec that required that performance for any oil approved for use in that application

I'd think littlehulkster's reasoning with respect to it being related to the potential fuel economy gains is probably the most likely.