Is Cost the Only Reason Not to use OEM Oil?

[DirectRejection]

Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by Direct_Rejection
Mazda had specific reasons outside of CAFE considerations for the design of High Moly MGMO 0W20.

I cannot find the information right now, but it had something to do with cold starts on the SkyActiv engine, with its adjusted valve timing and compression ratio.

This may have been the genesis of the concept of moly mitigating LSPI.


One would think that IF this was really that important, that they'd develop a spec that required that performance for any oil approved for use in that application

I'd think littlehulkster's reasoning with respect to it being related to the potential fuel economy gains is probably the most likely.


They do things different in Hiroshima.

This formula was with 600+ ppm of organic moly.
The automotive world has evolved since 2013.
Now it is typically 100 ppm of trimer moly that is found in motor oils.
These days, Mazda seems to recommend other oils over High Moly MGMO.
LOL.

Sure, the whole SkyActiv thing was about efficiency.
It all keeps us guessing.

 

[PimTac]

Originally Posted by Direct_Rejection
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by Direct_Rejection
Mazda had specific reasons outside of CAFE considerations for the design of High Moly MGMO 0W20.

I cannot find the information right now, but it had something to do with cold starts on the SkyActiv engine, with its adjusted valve timing and compression ratio.

This may have been the genesis of the concept of moly mitigating LSPI.


One would think that IF this was really that important, that they'd develop a spec that required that performance for any oil approved for use in that application

I'd think littlehulkster's reasoning with respect to it being related to the potential fuel economy gains is probably the most likely.


They do things different in Hiroshima.

This formula was with 600+ ppm of organic moly.
The automotive world has evolved since 2013.
Now it is typically 100 ppm of trimer moly that is found in motor oils.
These days, Mazda seems to recommend other oils over High Moly MGMO.
LOL.

Sure, the whole SkyActiv thing was about efficiency.
It all keeps us guessing.





It will keep you guessing, that's for sure.

Mazda had the oil developed for maximum fuel economy and that's it. 90% of Mazda dealerships do not use the oil for their service. Some you have to specifically ask for it. It's a good oil, don't get me wrong but the SkyActiv engines will run on any 0w20 or whatever is specified.

 

[DirectRejection]

Originally Posted by PimTac
Originally Posted by Direct_Rejection
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by Direct_Rejection
Mazda had specific reasons outside of CAFE considerations for the design of High Moly MGMO 0W20.

I cannot find the information right now, but it had something to do with cold starts on the SkyActiv engine, with its adjusted valve timing and compression ratio.

This may have been the genesis of the concept of moly mitigating LSPI.


One would think that IF this was really that important, that they'd develop a spec that required that performance for any oil approved for use in that application

I'd think littlehulkster's reasoning with respect to it being related to the potential fuel economy gains is probably the most likely.


They do things different in Hiroshima.

This formula was with 600+ ppm of organic moly.
The automotive world has evolved since 2013.
Now it is typically 100 ppm of trimer moly that is found in motor oils.
These days, Mazda seems to recommend other oils over High Moly MGMO.
LOL.

Sure, the whole SkyActiv thing was about efficiency.
It all keeps us guessing.





It will keep you guessing, that's for sure.

Mazda had the oil developed for maximum fuel economy and that's it. 90% of Mazda dealerships do not use the oil for their service. Some you have to specifically ask for it. It's a good oil, don't get me wrong but the SkyActiv engines will run on any 0w20 or whatever is specified.




Thank you for your response, Sir.

I am aware that moly improves fuel economy,
and that CAFE mandates MPG averages from manufacturers.

However, what I am saying here,
is that I read, years ago, reports from Mazda engineers,
where they said particular issues
which occur before SkyActiv engines are warmed up,
led them to putting high amounts of moly in this oil.

Indeed, there is a separate MGMO 0W20
with far less moly,
intended for non SkyActiv Mazda engines.

 

[littlehulkster]

Originally Posted by Direct_Rejection
Mazda had specific reasons outside of CAFE considerations for the design of High Moly MGMO 0W20.

I cannot find the information right now, but it had something to do with cold starts on the SkyActiv engine, with its adjusted valve timing and compression ratio.

This may have been the genesis of the concept of moly mitigating LSPI.


Maybe, but the manual on mine says any SN rated 0w20 is suitable, and Mazda will warrant it's use. It says MGMO or Castrol is recommended. Given as Castrol does not make a high moly oil, I'd imagine ultra high moly is not viewed as vital. The Castrol recommendation is probably because Castrol paid for it, given as "Castrol" is a rather broad category which covers a bunch of different oils.

That said, I'm running Pennzoil Platinum in mine now and I'm not worried. It was cheap and seems a perfectly fine oil. When I do the next change I'll probably try Quaker State UD, because it's cheap and higher in moly. Maybe, if I'm REALLY feeling my oats, I'll give TGMO a shot, as it's considerably cheaper than MGMO and pretty similar in terms of specs.

 

[PimTac]

"However, what I am saying here,
is that I read, years ago, reports from Mazda engineers,
where they said particular issues
which occur before SkyActiv engines are warmed up,
led them to putting high amounts of moly in this oil.

Indeed, there is a separate MGMO 0W20
with far less moly,
intended for non SkyActiv Mazda engines."





I haven't heard of any issues before warm up. They do run them differently in order to warm up faster but most manufacturers are doing the same thing.

It should be known that these engines have and are going through continuous improvements. They are not the same as the original SkyActiv engines were.

I haven't run the moly oil in mine since the factory fill.

 

[blupupher]

Originally Posted by OVERKILL

One would think that IF this was really that important, that they'd develop a spec that required that performance for any oil approved for use in that application

..

Yeah, I agree. GM felt strong enough about oil to have the dexos rating requirement for their vehicles, which has kind of turned into API creating the API SN+ rating.

I have wondered why it was not changed to SP (I read they will skip the letter "O" due to being similar to the number "0", just like they skipped the letter "I" because it looked like the number "1").

_____________________________________________________

2018 Hyundai Santa Fe: Delo XLE 10W-30, OEM Filter, 3,000 mile OCI
2012 Scion xB: QSUD 5W-20, CarQuest Blue, 5,000 mile OCI
2007 Saturn Vue: Synpower 5w-30, Ecogard Synthetic, OLM
2002 Ford F150: Magnatec 5W-20, Bosch Distance +, 1 year OCI
1994 Honda VT1100c: Peak 15W-40, Bosch Distance +, 1 year OCI

 

[oil_film_movies]

Originally Posted by Direct_Rejection
Mazda had specific reasons outside of CAFE considerations for the design of High Moly MGMO 0W20. I cannot find the information right now, but it had something to do with cold starts on the SkyActiv engine, with its adjusted valve timing and compression ratio.


Mazda put this note on their oil bottles:

Racing oils often have very high amounts of moly, for AW and FM both.

 

[littlehulkster]

Originally Posted by oil_film_movies
Originally Posted by Direct_Rejection
Mazda had specific reasons outside of CAFE considerations for the design of High Moly MGMO 0W20. I cannot find the information right now, but it had something to do with cold starts on the SkyActiv engine, with its adjusted valve timing and compression ratio.


Mazda put this note on their oil bottles:

Racing oils often have very high amounts of moly, for AW and FM both.


I'm not going to deny that Moly is effective at low temperatures, but it's far from the only additive that does that. ZDDP does the same thing, for example. Moly, however, has the added benefit of improving MPG, even if fractionally.

Again, given as Mazda will warranty the use of any SN rated oil (and recommends Castrol, which has little to no moly, right alongside MGMO in the manual) I don't think they'd view the high moly numbers as vital. If they did, they'd probably go the VW route and make a list of certified oils.

 

[DirectRejection]

Originally Posted by littlehulkster
Originally Posted by oil_film_movies
Originally Posted by Direct_Rejection
Mazda had specific reasons outside of CAFE considerations for the design of High Moly MGMO 0W20. I cannot find the information right now, but it had something to do with cold starts on the SkyActiv engine, with its adjusted valve timing and compression ratio.


Mazda put this note on their oil bottles:

Racing oils often have very high amounts of moly, for AW and FM both.


I'm not going to deny that Moly is effective at low temperatures, but it's far from the only additive that does that. ZDDP does the same thing, for example. Moly, however, has the added benefit of improving MPG, even if fractionally.

Again, given as Mazda will warranty the use of any SN rated oil (and recommends Castrol, which has little to no moly, right alongside MGMO in the manual) I don't think they'd view the high moly numbers as vital. If they did, they'd probably go the VW route and make a list of certified oils.


Much appreciated, Sir.

 

[DirectRejection]

Originally Posted by littlehulkster
Originally Posted by oil_film_movies
Originally Posted by Direct_Rejection
Mazda had specific reasons outside of CAFE considerations for the design of High Moly MGMO 0W20. I cannot find the information right now, but it had something to do with cold starts on the SkyActiv engine, with its adjusted valve timing and compression ratio.


Mazda put this note on their oil bottles:

Racing oils often have very high amounts of moly, for AW and FM both.


I'm not going to deny that Moly is effective at low temperatures, but it's far from the only additive that does that. ZDDP does the same thing, for example. Moly, however, has the added benefit of improving MPG, even if fractionally.

Again, given as Mazda will warranty the use of any SN rated oil (and recommends Castrol, which has little to no moly, right alongside MGMO in the manual) I don't think they'd view the high moly numbers as vital. If they did, they'd probably go the VW route and make a list of certified oils.


Thanks for your takes.
I agree with everyone.
Moly = + mpg.

My point was that Mazda discovered something about the adverse behavior of their original 2.0L & 2.4L SkyActiv G engines in the CX5 and Mazda 6, when cold, that was controlled by very high dose organic moly.

Of course, Mazda always changes their tune. That's Mazda.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted by littlehulkster
Originally Posted by oil_film_movies
Originally Posted by Direct_Rejection
Mazda had specific reasons outside of CAFE considerations for the design of High Moly MGMO 0W20. I cannot find the information right now, but it had something to do with cold starts on the SkyActiv engine, with its adjusted valve timing and compression ratio.


Mazda put this note on their oil bottles:

Racing oils often have very high amounts of moly, for AW and FM both.


I'm not going to deny that Moly is effective at low temperatures, but it's far from the only additive that does that. ZDDP does the same thing, for example. Moly, however, has the added benefit of improving MPG, even if fractionally.

Again, given as Mazda will warranty the use of any SN rated oil (and recommends Castrol, which has little to no moly, right alongside MGMO in the manual) I don't think they'd view the high moly numbers as vital. If they did, they'd probably go the VW route and make a list of certified oils.



Perhaps but under GF-5 (aka SN) phosphorus levels must be under 800 ppm.