Is Cosmoline closest to GM frame wax?

[JHZR2]

Moisture does not creep under RP-342. Doesn't wash off either. It's Superior to oil in many ways.

What objective long-term evidence do you have to verify this? People make the same claims with Waxoyl and other products, which have been observed to be false.

Not poo-pooing the product. But years of use is the only viable evidence.

 

[NYSADKHunter]

What objective long-term evidence do you have to verify this? People make the same claims with Waxoyl and other products, which have been observed to be false.

Not poo-pooing the product. But years of use is the only viable evidence.

Well I spoke with an engineer at cosmolinedirect and they can't claim the 5 years they typically hear about, then there's all the military equipment since WWI and every surplus rifle coated in the stuff aside from the entire locomotive industry and even the local DPW guys who maintain plows vouching to my dad that "yeah, that crap doesn't come off." And then various comparisons in US and Canada on youtube. After applying this myself, hands down, this is the product to use....also on forums for Toyota and US truck makers all trading tips. This is the stuff to use.

 

[JHZR2]

Well I spoke with an engineer at cosmolinedirect and they can't claim the 5 years they typically hear about, then there's all the military equipment since WWI and every surplus rifle coated in the stuff aside from the entire locomotive industry and even the local DPW guys who maintain plows vouching to my dad that "yeah, that crap doesn't come off." And then various comparisons in US and Canada on youtube. After applying this myself, hands down, this is the product to use....also on forums for Toyota and US truck makers all trading tips. This is the stuff to use.

which is all fine, but not objective evidenceon a vehicle frame that gets reflected uvvfrom the road, baked in the summer, and frozen in the winter. Some other products too don’t come off, until they flake off, or allow moisture to diffuse under.

Again, not saying that does happen, nor am
I saying it’s bad stuff. Just asking about primary evidence.

 

[NYSADKHunter]

which is all fine, but not objective evidenceon a vehicle frame that gets reflected uvvfrom the road, baked in the summer, and frozen in the winter. Some other products too don’t come off, until they flake off, or allow moisture to diffuse under.

Again, not saying that does happen, nor am
I saying it’s bad stuff. Just asking about primary evidence.

Well if you don't want to buy a can and spray half your front frame with this and try it...you don't have to. This is not UV affected. It doesn't form a sheet. It's a wax that if applied to a dry surface, remains intact. It doesn't freeze solid, it doesn't melt off in the summer. You owe yourself a test with one $10 can, ok?

 

[NYSADKHunter]

which is all fine, but not objective evidenceon a vehicle frame that gets reflected uvvfrom the road, baked in the summer, and frozen in the winter. Some other products too don’t come off, until they flake off, or allow moisture to diffuse under.

Again, not saying that does happen, nor am
I saying it’s bad stuff. Just asking about primary evidence.

 

[350Rocket]

I've been wanting to try cosmoline but price and availability kept me using other stuff. I used pressure washer, then wire wheel and drill, then a grinder and sanding discs to get down to bare metal or close as possible. Then I sprayed tremclad primer, then tremclad flat black brush painted on. Next I coated it with fluid film. I'm not quite done everything, started with areas I could only access because the box was off for new cab corners and rocker panels. (They were starting to rust through. )

I also sanded and painted the inside of the box then applied lots of fluid with with a brush and then reinstalled the box liner.

I'm hoping to get another 15 years out of this 2005 truck, here in the rust belt Ontario Canada.

 

[JHZR2]

Well if you don't want to buy a can and spray half your front frame with this and try it...you don't have to. This is not UV affected. It doesn't form a sheet. It's a wax that if applied to a dry surface, remains intact. It doesn't freeze solid, it doesn't melt off in the summer. You owe yourself a test with one $10 can, ok?

Actually I have at least three cans of the stuff. But as noted, objective evidence related to this takes years.

Ive put products like Amsoil HDMP under vehicles, and have still observed rust, and/or creepage of moisture under/through. Ive observed that already rusting items will continue to (progress) with rust despite these coatings.

Thus why I’m trying to hold this to a high objective standard.

Time isn’t on anybody’s side to just go buy a can of it and try. That doesn’t get to the outcome in 5-10 years.

I don’t know that I buy that it is uneffected by heat or uv. I don’t know what you mean by a sheet. We aren’t talking rubberized undercoating.

im truly not trying to be a jerk here, and I own a few cans of this stuff. I’m just trying to glean more info about it and who has tried what and gotten what experiences...

 

[NYSADKHunter]

Melting point 115F. It stays flexible. It self heals, it is a barrier against oxygen. It does not run off. Here's one of many tests but if you don't apply the cans you have and you exceed the shelf life of two years you might not get the performance. This will be my last reply. Go apply what you own as doing anything is better than nothing and currently you are a little OCPD on this. Maybe it would help to mention I'm an engineer from RPI with parts on the Space Station, I've dealt with National Labs, I work in rotating machinery where we apply similar MIL spec coatings on carbo steel like NOX and that my coworker who deals with our coatings is very familiar with Cosmoline having worked at the military facility at the Waterveliet Arsenal known as Benet Labs....honestly, apply something, now.

 

[350Rocket]

Actually I have at least three cans of the stuff. But as noted, objective evidence related to this takes years.

Ive put products like Amsoil HDMP under vehicles, and have still observed rust, and/or creepage of moisture under/through. Ive observed that already rusting items will continue to (progress) with rust despite these coatings.

Thus why I’m trying to hold this to a high objective standard.

Time isn’t on anybody’s side to just go buy a can of it and try. That doesn’t get to the outcome in 5-10 years.

I don’t know that I buy that it is uneffected by heat or uv. I don’t know what you mean by a sheet. We aren’t talking rubberized undercoating.

im truly not trying to be a jerk here, and I own a few cans of this stuff. I’m just trying to glean more info about it and who has tried what and gotten what experiences...

I think the only way to be sure no rust will happen for quite some time is to get down to clean bars metal, add fresh paint (or ideally primer and then paint) and then put whatever undercoating you choose on top of that. With the fluid film I'll be guaranteed to have to respray at least every spring and fall. Cosmoline might be good for a few years.

 

[LeakySeals]

What objective long-term evidence do you have to verify this? People make the same claims with Waxoyl and other products, which have been observed to be false.

Not poo-pooing the product. But years of use is the only viable evidence.

I posted a lot of info in the beginning of this thread. You didn't read it?

 

[JHZR2]

I posted a lot of info in the beginning of this thread. You didn't read it?

Of course I did. I asked for YEARS of data or results, not since 2018, with results showing that it is flaking off in some places.

You may be the guinea pig for getting years of data with this stuff, since nobody else seems to have it.

The fact that it flaked off in some locations is concerning, though it could be based upon underlying surface rust. Some products that are more "waxy" might be more tenacious in getting into the "dry areas" where there's flaky rust. The fact that there was flake off helps substantiate my concerns that it may not truly coat everything, and may offer opportunities for moisture to get in/under, at least without a more creeping-capable topcoat.

 

[JHZR2]

Melting point 115F. It stays flexible. It self heals, it is a barrier against oxygen. It does not run off. Here's one of many tests but if you don't apply the cans you have and you exceed the shelf life of two years you might not get the performance. This will be my last reply. Go apply what you own as doing anything is better than nothing and currently you are a little OCPD on this. Maybe it would help to mention I'm an engineer from RPI with parts on the Space Station, I've dealt with National Labs, I work in rotating machinery where we apply similar MIL spec coatings on carbo steel like NOX and that my coworker who deals with our coatings is very familiar with Cosmoline having worked at the military facility at the Waterveliet Arsenal known as Benet Labs....honestly, apply something, now.

Ummm, great. I deal with engineers like you all the time (Im part of the club ). And? Not saying your credentials are poor or disparaging your experience and pedigree (I am a PhD engineer as well), just asking the question because undercoating on a frame is different than rifles in a box, or even in a space-based, sea-based, or other applications. This isnt rocket science either, but without new data, long term data, youre just putting forth a sales pitch of sorts. Ive been tracking OP's progress.

I personally have waxoyl on the underside of my 1982 MB, and it has been on there for about 10 years. Others say that Waxoyl will dry and flake, it hasnt for me. So I have "applied something". And I have been tracking it.

Ive run Amsoil HDMP on my saab for about 7 years, and found rust form underneath.

Ive run eastwood HD anti rust wax in interior panels of 40yo cars.

I have this cosmolene in interior panels of 40yo cars.

But since I last did an exterior undercoating with a waxy product (I do apply carwell and Krown to certain vehicles), this cosmolene stuff has come out and been available (maybe it was before). I may want to touch up my chevy truck, and I want to apply something after surface treatment on my 438k mile Ram CTD. So thereis interest for long-term data.

Not sure why that is so hard to understand. Or why it is difficult to comprehend that one year isnt long term data in a relevant environment.

 

[NYSADKHunter]

Ummm, great. I deal with engineers like you all the time. And? Not saying your credentials are poor or disparaging your experience and pedigree (I am a PhD engineer as well), just asking the question because undercoating on a frame is different than rifles in a box, or even in a space-based, sea-based, or other applications. This isnt rocket science either, but without new data, long term data, youre just putting forth a sales pitch of sorts. Ive been tracking OP's progress.

I personally have waxoyl on the underside of my 1982 MB, and it has been on there for about 10 years. Others say that Waxoyl will dry and flake, it hasnt for me. So I have "applied something". And I have been tracking it.

Ive run Amsoil HDMP on my saab for about 7 years, and found rust form underneath.

Ive run eastwood HD anti rust wax in interior panels of 40yo cars.

I have this cosmolene in interior panels of 40yo cars.

But since I last did an exterior undercoating with a waxy product (I do apply carwell and Krown to certain vehicles), this cosmolene stuff has come out and been available (maybe it was before). I may want to touch up my chevy truck, and I want to apply something after surface treatment on my 438k mile Ram CTD. So thereis interest for long-term data.

Not sure why that is so hard to understand. Or why it is difficult to comprehend that one year isnt long term data in a relevant environment.

I'd call cosmolinedirect.com. I can't help you. Discussion with other users and decades of military use has me sold. Clean and dry, it adheres...even with light surface rust. If you coat a dirty area, it will not penetrate the dirt/grease/oil.

 

[NYSADKHunter]

Dear JHZR2,
I missed the disconnect. You are asking for years of concrete data when I do not expect that kind of performance. I'm seeking a product that stays, seals, and lasts 18+ months. For where I'm applying, I'm not expecting it to creep. www.cosmolinedirect.com engineers advised they hear 2-5 years from many customers and that they don't feel comfortable stating longer than 18mos. I do plan for annual inspection and in my mind, I don't find it unacceptable to touch up every two years. Where I live, the winters and dank months are terrible. For years of durable surface, special prep per SSPC and coating systems are required and are typically by professionals. As an example, I and my employer are familiar with ISO 12944 and we use urethane coatings by Continental Products Company with a zinc phosphate primer and a top coat with acrylic urethane for C4M/H and C5M/H (onshore to 15yr and 15yr+, and offshore, respectively) with NDFT of 8mil and 5mil respectively. But the process is very very controlled and specific. Coatings must be done at the correct temp/RH and within a time limit of blasting. Soooooo, if you run across a DIY auto undercoating with years of data, I'm all ears. I'm willing to bet we won't find one. However, this sounds like a good ASTM test that any maker or independent 3rd party should perform.

 

[LeakySeals]

Of course I did. I asked for YEARS of data or results, not since 2018, with results showing that it is flaking off in some places.

You may be the guinea pig for getting years of data with this stuff, since nobody else seems to have it.

The fact that it flaked off in some locations is concerning, though it could be based upon underlying surface rust. Some products that are more "waxy" might be more tenacious in getting into the "dry areas" where there's flaky rust. The fact that there was flake off helps substantiate my concerns that it may not truly coat everything, and may offer opportunities for moisture to get in/under, at least without a more creeping-capable topcoat.

The flaking off pictures was fluid film after 6 months. Started off great until it started building up with dirt and sand and soot. Which dried out the oil. And it started flaking off exposing live rust underneath. After seeing that I moved on to other options. So far no flaking no no further rust. In the summer it gets somewhat tacky and creeps around. In the winter it gets hard so nothing sticks to it. For the most part the surface stays clean.

I don't mind being the guinea pig. I will continue to take pictures. Maybe take a video digging into the wax down to the metal on the frame . See what's underneath. You can kind of see what's underneath already because it's not a black coating. It's a translucent Amber so you can see through it.

 

[NYSADKHunter]

The flaking off pictures was fluid film after 6 months. Started off great until it started building up with dirt and sand and soot. Which dried out the oil. And it started flaking off exposing live rust underneath. After seeing that I moved on to other options. So far no flaking no no further rust. In the summer it gets somewhat tacky and creeps around. In the winter it gets hard so nothing sticks to it. For the most part the surface stays clean.

I don't mind being the guinea pig. I will continue to take pictures. Maybe take a video digging into the wax down to the metal on the frame . See what's underneath. You can kind of see what's underneath already because it's not a black coating. It's a translucent Amber so you can see through it.

Hey guys,
Here's a one year video from a guy who did 3, 6, 9, 12mos reports from a crude test on the front of a trailer in Canada. RP-342 appears to be magic LOL

 

[JHZR2]

The flaking off pictures was fluid film after 6 months. Started off great until it started building up with dirt and sand and soot. Which dried out the oil. And it started flaking off exposing live rust underneath. After seeing that I moved on to other options. So far no flaking no no further rust. In the summer it gets somewhat tacky and creeps around. In the winter it gets hard so nothing sticks to it. For the most part the surface stays clean.

I don't mind being the guinea pig. I will continue to take pictures. Maybe take a video digging into the wax down to the metal on the frame . See what's underneath. You can kind of see what's underneath already because it's not a black coating. It's a translucent Amber so you can see through it.

I read again the section where you had more flake-off, and attributed it to FF and not removing all of it.

Really do appreciate you keeping up with the outcome of this “experiment”. It’s interesting to watch!

Hey guys,
Here's a one year video from a guy who did 3, 6, 9, 12mos reports from a crude test on the front of a trailer in Canada. RP-342 appears to be magic LOL

I think we were talking past each other yesterday. This was an interesting watch, though his scraping of the metal was painful

Its still only one year. Our resident guinea pig has a good lead on the YouTuber!

My take away from OP’s assessment of the flaking post cosmolene, and the YouTube video, is that direct interface of cosmolene and metal may be better. Where he painted seemed more prone to rust after the scratch (old scratches). That tells me that you’re better off not having something else in the way as it impedes the cosmolene’s interaction with the metal, and it doesn’t creep enough post-event to make up for it or heal, other than maybe in the most tiny of voids.

 

[NYSADKHunter]

I appreciate him scraping at it as the months went on because that really helps emphasize it's effectiveness against road abrasion. The only products I'd consider as a first layer are Tremclad or Rustoleum Rust Reformer. These might be the same product. In someone else's video they'd cosmo after the rust reformer and they claimed they never had any rust afterwards years later. Flakey rust, that's another story and that needs to be removed. When I coated my Camry last weekend I noticed a small spot along the rocker toward the rear that had some dirt accumulate. I had already sprayed it with RP342....when I went back accidentally, I saw the dirt with top layer of cosmoline fall off...so pressure washing on the underside with some days to drive out is best.

 

[JHZR2]

I appreciate him scraping at it as the months went on because that really helps emphasize it's effectiveness against road abrasion. The only products I'd consider as a first layer are Tremclad or Rustoleum Rust Reformer. These might be the same product. In someone else's video they'd cosmo after the rust reformer and they claimed they never had any rust afterwards years later. Flakey rust, that's another story and that needs to be removed. When I coated my Camry last weekend I noticed a small spot along the rocker toward the rear that had some dirt accumulate. I had already sprayed it with RP342....when I went back accidentally, I saw the dirt with top layer of cosmoline fall off...so pressure washing on the underside with some days to drive out is best.

You think its worth it? My take-away from the video is that the exposed metal under the old scrapings seemed to rust when it was painted, but hadnt when it was just the cosmoline. Which was curious, but would indicate to me that the paint may affect the mobility of the product, or its ability to migrate and protect somehow.

Intrinsically it seems like a good idea to paint after scraping. But I was somewhat surprised at what I saw.

 

[NYSADKHunter]

Yeah I think overall it is better to treat rust than not....but with that being said, I spent a significant amount of time this weekend scraping scale free from my girlfriend's 2005 Highlander which came up to upstate NY from VA in 2017. I didn't have any rust reformer etc. I basically got it as clean as I could and gave it a coat. It looks terrible in the back end but, not enough to affect it structurally. What it did highlight is how bad the factory undercoating seems to be....basically flaking off and allowing moisture to be trapped underneath. I removed all of it. I'm sore as hell but glad the entire vehicle has something as good as the RP342 on it, effectively sealing out moisture. I'll give areas a second coat as much as I can. I may do a coworker's brand new Tacoma as well....only dust on that frame, and she's leary of a dealer undercoating.