interesting result from oversized oil filters

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mingchi96

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I have heard people saying oversized oil filters reduce your oil pressure, while others say it increases it. I just changed my oil in my b20/vtec since it needed it and used the same oil (synthetic) but a different filter. Supertech 3950. It is a wal-mart brand filter, but has been proven to be identical to a mobil and bosch and stp, so why not save a few bucks. it is also identical to STP 3950.

Well anyways, with a normal size honda filter, my oil pressure when idling and engine warm is right around 28-29. and at 4000+ rpms, oil pressure is right around 79-80. Now with the bigger oil filter, I saw an increase in oil pressure everywhere. Now, pressure at idle is around 32-33 and 4000+ rpms gets me a pressure of around 84. an increase of about 4 psi. Not too bad. Now I just need somebody else to try it also, to see if they get the same results as me.
 
quote:
Originally posted by mingchi96:
Supertech 3950. It is a wal-mart brand filter, but has been proven to be identical to a mobil and bosch and stp, so why not save a few bucks. it is also identical to STP 3950.
Click to expand...
I believe the only thing that's been "proven" is that it's got the same thread size and an acceptable gasket size. These filter's are made for the individual companies to their specs by Champion Labs. Media type, flow numbers, gasket design, bypass settings, can thickness, etc, DO vary between these brands. However, if you do have the proof, we'd all love to see it. All these filters and many more have been cut open and "evaluated" here and in other forums, but we on this board are starving for some REAL filter analysis results.

[ February 22, 2003, 07:53 PM: Message edited by: ShootingStar ]
 
As Shooting Star has indicated they are different. Bosch is a higher efficiency than ST. Mobil has a heavier can than the others. K&N (also Champ Labs) has the thickness of the Mobil 1 but again has a different filter media. Champion builds different filters depending on the spec requirement.
 
The increased pressure to the engine could be from a bypass valve with a lower setting and open earlier, or less restrictive media which also filters less, or more media thereby causing less restriction.

We can find out the bypass valve spec, but have no way of knowing about the media.

The Supertech is not the same as Mobil 1, Bosch, or STP, just made by the same maker. We do know that it filters less. We don't know if that really makes a difference.


Ken
 
quote:
i have used fram PH3593A and a honda oil filter on my car before, both of them giving me the same oil pressure readings.
Click to expand...
they could of been the same filter since the oem "made in canada" filter is fram.

[ February 23, 2003, 12:21 AM: Message edited by: oilcanboyd ]
 
Ken2,
Is the oil pressure sensor usually in line before the oil filter, after the filter, or can it vary?

OkieG
 
I found that when I used a ST 2808 (Walmart - Supertech) filter on my Civic, there was a much longer delay when I first fired it up until the oil pressure warning went off. Several seconds as compared to no more than a second or two with other filters such as the OEM filters or aftermarket filters from WIX or Baldwin.

I just assume that it's at least a little more restrictive.
dunno.gif


--- Bror Jace
 
Bror Jace, I had the same delayed oil pressure build up when I tried using an oversize OEM oil filter. So I immediately switched back to the standard size OEM filter.
 
banghead.gif
Add me to that list! I tried a K&N HP1005 oversize for about a week, then switched to the HP1004 and now I don't have that problem. The hesitation in the oil presssure light made me too nervous, especially since during cold starts that's when the majority of engine wear occurs. Oversize filters are not worth it, in my opinion. It sounds appealing to add more filtration along with better flow, but in the end it really doesn't make much difference.
 
Holden 6 cylinders had a big can oil filter just about for ever.

In the early 80s, customers started complaining about the tappet rattle when the things were started. Particularly when the Japanese motors didn't do it.

So Holden released a small can filter for the 4s and 6s, that really did get the oil to the tappets a lot quicker than the big can.
 
Are you saying that on every cold start on the morning your oil light will come on for a second?

The only time I ever see the oil light flicker on my five cars is when I change the filter and start it for the first time with the new filter.. All other times once the key is turned it goes off immediately.

Am I missing something?
 
quote:
Originally posted by Ken2:
The Supertech is not the same as Mobil 1, Bosch, or STP, just made by the same maker. We do know that it filters less.
Click to expand...
Champion has confirmed that the SuperTech and STP filters are identical except for color and labeling. The SuperTech and Bosch filters are identical except for media and labeling. The Mobil 1 is the unique filter of the three.
 
I also have seen higher oil pressure and quieter valvetrain/chain/guide with a larger name brand oil filters. If using cheap or incorrectly chosen filters, there might be some risk.

Oil pressure gauges are mounted incorrectly in some vehicles. It can be mounted before or after the filter. This throws off peoples' opinions on filters. Aftermarket gauges should be mounted after the filter. Mounting before/after filter with two gauges will give an accurate filter:filter comparison. I haven't seen anyone do this yet.
More oil pressure after the filter and less oil pressure before the filter usually means that there is an improvement in oil flow(or stuck open bypass). Use the factory repair/service manual's oil flow diagram to see where your vehicle's oil pressure sender location is.

Delayed oil pressure is caused by an ADBV that isn't working or excessively high bypass pressure because of thick oil and its resistance to move throught the media. It shouldn't take any more time for oil to reach the engine when using a bigger filter. The filter should always stay full after replacement.

The KN HP1005 has a higher bypass pressure than the HP1004 which means that it will be more restrictive until bypass is reached. Match the oversized filter's bypass pressure with the OEM's bypass pressure when oversizing filters. Or, use a higher flow oil pump if available. Don't assume that the larger filter's media's 'less restriction' makes up for the higher bypass pressure.

There has been NO "in the end" justification/conclusion/positives/negatives yet. So far, it has been mostly hearsay.

But, I have higher oil pressure and less engine noise and will stick with the larger filter. OEMs have been cutting costs every chance they get. Fluid capacity, filter size, & filter capacity has recently taken a hit.

The difference between the STP and Supertech filter is $1. I won't be using Mobil1/Bosch filters because I won't pay that much for a filter not made in America. For the same $$, I can get dana/puro/wix/pboys/carquest/....(for my application) filters made right here in the USA.
 
quote:
Originally posted by unDummy:



The difference between the STP and Supertech filter is $1. I won't be using Mobil1/Bosch filters because I won't pay that much for a filter not made in America. For the same $$, I can get dana/puro/wix/pboys/carquest/....(for my application) filters made right here in the USA.
Click to expand...
Where did you hear that the Mobil 1 and Bosch Premium filters weren't made in USA? They are both made by Champion Labs, which I'm pretty sure is in Illinois. The regular Bosch is probably made somewhere else, but not the premiums.

[ February 24, 2003, 01:35 PM: Message edited by: Patman ]
 
quote:
Originally posted by Patman:

quote:
Originally posted by unDummy:



The difference between the STP and Supertech filter is $1. I won't be using Mobil1/Bosch filters because I won't pay that much for a filter not made in America. For the same $$, I can get dana/puro/wix/pboys/carquest/....(for my application) filters made right here in the USA.
Click to expand...
Where did you hear that the Mobil 1 and Bosch Premium filters weren't made in USA? They are both made by Champion Labs, which I'm pretty sure is in Illinois. The regular Bosch is probably made somewhere else, but not the premiums.
Click to expand...
Champion has plants all over the U.S. There's one here in South Carolina and they have one in Mexico. The SuperTech filter for my Olds van is made in Mexico. The one to fit my Chrysler is made in the U.S.
 
All the supertech/stp ones that I use have made in Mexico on them.

My Mobil1 filters say "product of USA" or something like that. Nowhere on it says where it is made. Doesn't say produced or made on it anywhere. Anything sold here is a "product" regardless of where its made. I am taking the meaning of the word literally as a noun and not a verb.

And, I said for my application. Don't be surprised if "made in area" changes with location and application. I had 3 identical filters from one manufacturer. One is made in Israel, another in Asia, and the last in the USA. Same filter company and part number. Each was purchased from a different store. Pisses me off.

From now on, any filter I buy is going to be made right here without any questionable wording.
 
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