800 ppm of ZDDP for 0W-40 is a bit far from Esso's current XD-3 Extra data sheet values of 1210 ppm for Zinc and 1110 ppm for Phosphorus. I'm not aware of a formula for calculating ZDDP ppm from Zn & P ppm but I would expect that it would be in the neighbourhood of both.
Imperial Oil (Esso) XD-3 0W-30 question
- Thread starter LarryOil
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Yeah, CJ-4 requires 1200 ppm, no more, no less, basically. GF-4 requires 600-800 ppm of ZDDP.
The old formula had somewhere between 1400 and 1500 ppm of ZDDP, and 3780 ppm of calcium. The additive level was the same as the present CI-4+ 15W-40.
The old formula had somewhere between 1400 and 1500 ppm of ZDDP, and 3780 ppm of calcium. The additive level was the same as the present CI-4+ 15W-40.
Originally Posted By: MGregoir
Any oil labelled CI-4 is the old formula, and CJ-4 is the new formula. It is a very definitive, easy to pick out split.
Sorry for this possibly obvious question but does CJ-4 necessarily imply the SM designation as well? I say this as I picked up a bottle of XD 0W30 the other day knowing that for the past couple of years the formula had changed to allow for the SM designation but looking on the back I see "SL" and "CJ-4" but no "SM"
I have scanned the label:
Any oil labelled CI-4 is the old formula, and CJ-4 is the new formula. It is a very definitive, easy to pick out split.
Sorry for this possibly obvious question but does CJ-4 necessarily imply the SM designation as well? I say this as I picked up a bottle of XD 0W30 the other day knowing that for the past couple of years the formula had changed to allow for the SM designation but looking on the back I see "SL" and "CJ-4" but no "SM"
I have scanned the label:
Just called today (4/18/2010) and price is $6.09/L in Vancouver area.
Originally Posted By: 21Rouge
Sorry for this possibly obvious question but does CJ-4 necessarily imply the SM designation as well? I say this as I picked up a bottle of XD 0W30 the other day knowing that for the past couple of years the formula had changed to allow for the SM designation but looking on the back I see "SL" and "CJ-4" but no "SM"
No. It says SL, and that means only SL. In fact, there are oils that are specified for diesel engines only (with a C designation) that have absolutely no gasoline rating.
Sorry for this possibly obvious question but does CJ-4 necessarily imply the SM designation as well? I say this as I picked up a bottle of XD 0W30 the other day knowing that for the past couple of years the formula had changed to allow for the SM designation but looking on the back I see "SL" and "CJ-4" but no "SM"
No. It says SL, and that means only SL. In fact, there are oils that are specified for diesel engines only (with a C designation) that have absolutely no gasoline rating.
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: 21Rouge
Sorry for this possibly obvious question but does CJ-4 necessarily imply the SM designation as well? I say this as I picked up a bottle of XD 0W30 the other day knowing that for the past couple of years the formula had changed to allow for the SM designation but looking on the back I see "SL" and "CJ-4" but no "SM"
No. It says SL, and that means only SL. In fact, there are oils that are specified for diesel engines only (with a C designation) that have absolutely no gasoline rating.
Thanks for the reply. I had called Esso's technical help a month or so ago and the rep. claimed that any bottle of the Esso XD CJ-4 is also SM rated even though it doesnt sjow SM on the bottle!
Garak, you do realize that since at least February 2009 that HDEO Esso XD 0W30 is also SM rated and the lable I posted above is from a bottle that I had ordered from HH last month.
So I guess the question is has anyone got a bottle/jug of Esso XD 0W30 which actually lists the SM designation?
Originally Posted By: 21Rouge
Sorry for this possibly obvious question but does CJ-4 necessarily imply the SM designation as well? I say this as I picked up a bottle of XD 0W30 the other day knowing that for the past couple of years the formula had changed to allow for the SM designation but looking on the back I see "SL" and "CJ-4" but no "SM"
No. It says SL, and that means only SL. In fact, there are oils that are specified for diesel engines only (with a C designation) that have absolutely no gasoline rating.
Thanks for the reply. I had called Esso's technical help a month or so ago and the rep. claimed that any bottle of the Esso XD CJ-4 is also SM rated even though it doesnt sjow SM on the bottle!
Garak, you do realize that since at least February 2009 that HDEO Esso XD 0W30 is also SM rated and the lable I posted above is from a bottle that I had ordered from HH last month.
So I guess the question is has anyone got a bottle/jug of Esso XD 0W30 which actually lists the SM designation?
Originally Posted By: 21Rouge
Garak, you do realize that since at least February 2009 that HDEO Esso XD 0W30 is also SM rated and the lable I posted above is from a bottle that I had ordered from HH last month.
In some ways, it doesn't surprise me. Some of the dealers have a pretty substantial amount of stock, and it takes a while to get rid of the old stuff. I suppose it would be an issue for those who need SM to get actual SM. For me, it wouldn't matter much either way. For those under warranty, it's certainly another matter.
Garak, you do realize that since at least February 2009 that HDEO Esso XD 0W30 is also SM rated and the lable I posted above is from a bottle that I had ordered from HH last month.
In some ways, it doesn't surprise me. Some of the dealers have a pretty substantial amount of stock, and it takes a while to get rid of the old stuff. I suppose it would be an issue for those who need SM to get actual SM. For me, it wouldn't matter much either way. For those under warranty, it's certainly another matter.
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: 21Rouge
Garak, you do realize that since at least February 2009 that HDEO Esso XD 0W30 is also SM rated and the lable I posted above is from a bottle that I had ordered from HH last month.
In some ways, it doesn't surprise me. Some of the dealers have a pretty substantial amount of stock, and it takes a while to get rid of the old stuff.
But the confusion lies with the fact that the Esso technical rep. I spoke to claims that the XD 0W30 with the CJ-4 designation necessarily means that it is also SM rated even though it does *not* show SM on the bottle
. Has any fellow Canadian seen an XD SM bottle?
FWIW the Esso 1800 # for tech support is terrible.
Originally Posted By: 21Rouge
Garak, you do realize that since at least February 2009 that HDEO Esso XD 0W30 is also SM rated and the lable I posted above is from a bottle that I had ordered from HH last month.
In some ways, it doesn't surprise me. Some of the dealers have a pretty substantial amount of stock, and it takes a while to get rid of the old stuff.
But the confusion lies with the fact that the Esso technical rep. I spoke to claims that the XD 0W30 with the CJ-4 designation necessarily means that it is also SM rated even though it does *not* show SM on the bottle
FWIW the Esso 1800 # for tech support is terrible.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: 21Rouge
But the confusion lies with the fact that the Esso technical rep. I spoke to claims that the XD 0W30 with the CJ-4 designation necessarily means that it is also SM rated even though it does *not* show SM on the bottle
. Has any fellow Canadian seen an XD SM bottle?
I can't say I have seen such a bottle, but I haven't looked either. The tech rep is clearly mistaken. CJ-4 and SM often appear on the same bottle, but they are certainly not the same, and CJ-4 doesn't mean SM. Perhaps the tech rep should take a look a their Delvac 1 SHC. The sheet for that product specifically prohibits its use in gasoline vehicles, yet it is a C rated diesel engine oil.
Other companies also have diesel engine oils that do not meet gasoline engine specifications. They're not that common, but they are out there.
The tech should also take a look at Delvac 1300, which is both CJ-4 and SM and marked as such, and sold by their distributors for at least a couple years already. Perhaps he can find us some documentation from the API that shows us the SM and CJ-4 are the same thing. Maybe he could even get a promotion if he reports higher up that Exxon Mobil no longer needs to bother with both certifications, since one is enough.
But the confusion lies with the fact that the Esso technical rep. I spoke to claims that the XD 0W30 with the CJ-4 designation necessarily means that it is also SM rated even though it does *not* show SM on the bottle
I can't say I have seen such a bottle, but I haven't looked either. The tech rep is clearly mistaken. CJ-4 and SM often appear on the same bottle, but they are certainly not the same, and CJ-4 doesn't mean SM. Perhaps the tech rep should take a look a their Delvac 1 SHC. The sheet for that product specifically prohibits its use in gasoline vehicles, yet it is a C rated diesel engine oil.
Other companies also have diesel engine oils that do not meet gasoline engine specifications. They're not that common, but they are out there.
The tech should also take a look at Delvac 1300, which is both CJ-4 and SM and marked as such, and sold by their distributors for at least a couple years already. Perhaps he can find us some documentation from the API that shows us the SM and CJ-4 are the same thing. Maybe he could even get a promotion if he reports higher up that Exxon Mobil no longer needs to bother with both certifications, since one is enough.
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: 21Rouge
But the confusion lies with the fact that the Esso technical rep. I spoke to claims that the XD 0W30 with the CJ-4 designation necessarily means that it is also SM rated even though it does *not* show SM on the bottle
. Has any fellow Canadian seen an XD SM bottle?
I can't say I have seen such a bottle,
I received this email from Esso re their "SM" Esso XD 0W30:
First of all, I do not routinely see package labels, and therefore cannot explain word for word what you are seeing, but I hear that API SM is not listed. That is accurate since the product is not formally approved for it, eventhough we have enough field experience and test data to support our recommendation for the SM application. This is why the data
sheet uses the words "recommended for" or "quality level" instead of "approved" or "meets".
I always thought that the new formulation of XD was approved for SM use.
Originally Posted By: 21Rouge
But the confusion lies with the fact that the Esso technical rep. I spoke to claims that the XD 0W30 with the CJ-4 designation necessarily means that it is also SM rated even though it does *not* show SM on the bottle
I can't say I have seen such a bottle,
I received this email from Esso re their "SM" Esso XD 0W30:
First of all, I do not routinely see package labels, and therefore cannot explain word for word what you are seeing, but I hear that API SM is not listed. That is accurate since the product is not formally approved for it, eventhough we have enough field experience and test data to support our recommendation for the SM application. This is why the data
sheet uses the words "recommended for" or "quality level" instead of "approved" or "meets".
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