Imperial Oil (Esso) XD-3 0W-30 question

[LarryOil]

Hi Everyone.

According to the Esso XD-3 Extra Data Sheet, the TBN of the 0W-30 is 7.7, which seems a lot less than other oils (especially the PAO base stocks) it seems to be regularly compared to.

Am I missing something here, or just interpreting the data incorrectly?

Also Can I use this safely in my 2004 Camry 2.4L? I forget the precise oil rating (SL/SM(?)) it calls for.

Thanks.

 

[21Rouge]

Originally Posted By: LarryOil
Also Can I use this safely in my 2004 Camry 2.4L? I forget the precise oil rating (SL/SM(?)) it calls for.

Thanks.


I have used this same XD successfully (UOA was uneventful) in my 4 cylinder 05 Vibe.

 

[Max_Wander]

Esso XD-3 is apparently designed specifically for heavy duty diesel applications, with backward compatability to gasoline engines and is used in mixed fleets without incident. You should try running the oil with a VOA and UOA to see just how the TBN changes. If you should choose to do so, post the results

 

[LarryOil]

Is there info for Canadians on the procedures and costs of getting VOA/UOA's?

Thanks!

 

[Max_Wander]

Hey Larry, talk to StevieC I heard he had the "inside scoop" for Canadian oil tests

 

[MGregoir]

This is a really good oil only available to Canada, and I believe enough of us are interested in running it that we could run a year-long UOA cycle at a variet of intervals, usages and in a variety of engine families to give it a performance benchmark.

The old formula was extremely high detergent and high ZDDP, now the base has remained the same but the TBN has been reduced by 40% and the ZDDP by 20%. It is still a CJ-4 oil though, which means a 3.5 minimum HT/HS and it should be a fairly long lasting oil.

I'd say it has the measure of German Castrol but the only way to find out is testing.

 

[Jim 5]

This almost 40wt did quite well through a bitterly cold winter in my wife's old 2003 Acura 3.2TL with the 3.2L Honda V6 (spec'd for 5w-20). You could find the UOA in the UOA section by searching with my screen name. It would be at least 3 years ago.

 

[StevieC]

XD-3 is a very stout oil that holds up for a really long time. I always laugh reading here when people are comparing virgin TBN's as thought that means the oil is going to hold up better for longer if it has a higher number. (Not laughing at you though...)

My response is, it depends on the application, the driving, the climate and the oil.

Generally XD-3 stands up for a very long time before the TBN gets to the critically low point.

There was a BITOG user on here who used the product for 30K KM changes without issue or so he claims.

I personally have used the oil before in friends/customers engines and it has always left them spotless and in service for a very long time.

It would do excellent in your Camry's engine. I would run it for 6K KM the first time, then go out to 8K-10K KM assuming you do mixed highway/city driving.

ONN: I'm from the Hamilton area and know Cambridge quite well.

 

[21Rouge]

Originally Posted By: MGregoir
The old formula was extremely high detergent and high ZDDP, now the base has remained the same but the TBN has been reduced by 40% and the ZDDP by 20%. It is still a CJ-4 oil though, which means a 3.5 minimum HT/HS and it should be a fairly long lasting oil.


Any idea when Esso changed the formulation?
Is there a VOA of this new XD?

 

[MGregoir]

Esso changed the formulation in August of 2008.

I do not know if there is one but they post a fairly thorough specification on the Imperial Oil website.

 

[Craig in Canada]

Originally Posted By: MGregoir

The old formula was extremely high detergent and high ZDDP, now the base has remained the same but the TBN has been reduced by 40% and the ZDDP by 20%. It is still a CJ-4 oil though, which means a 3.5 minimum HT/HS and it should be a fairly long lasting oil.


I'd certainly be interested in more specific and authoritative info on this. When, which grades, lot numbers, VOAs, PDS specs showing the change, that sort of thing...

I sometimes use XD-3 15W40 in BMW summer applications (and for ARX cycles). If I found a good local source of 0W30 or 0W40 I'd entertain it too. GC is my go-to oil right now.

 

[MGregoir]

The PDS dated August 2008 shows the change. They had to reduce the sulfated ash content and ZDDP to meet the CJ-4 specification, and the TBN went from 13.5 to 7.7. Any oil labelled CI-4 is the old formula, and CJ-4 is the new formula. It is a very definitive, easy to pick out split.

It was an extremely high ash oil because of the large amount of detergent, and had such high ZDDP because of the competing chemistry of the detergent and the anti-wear additive. It was a very good oil but very brute force in how it achieved its goals.

 

[Craig in Canada]

Originally Posted By: MGregoir
The PDS dated August 2008 shows the change. They had to reduce the sulfated ash content and ZDDP to meet the CJ-4 specification, and the TBN went from 13.5 to 7.7. Any oil labelled CI-4 is the old formula, and CJ-4 is the new formula. It is a very definitive, easy to pick out split.

It was an extremely high ash oil because of the large amount of detergent, and had such high ZDDP because of the competing chemistry of the detergent and the anti-wear additive. It was a very good oil but very brute force in how it achieved its goals.


OK, thanks for the details. These changes were across all grades to meet CJ-4? Unfortunate, I suppose, but unless it falls rapidly with this oil crazy TBNs like that would only be for highly extended drain I would imagine.

Does this PDS contain before/after, or do we need to have a saved copy of the CI-4 PDS?

 

[Greaser]

When Blackstone did my UOA of the 0W-40 after 5,000 miles it was still a solid 40W according to their results.My Jeeps' 4.0L engines are easy on oil to begin with.I use the 0W-30 in the TJ now and the Cherokee seems to like the 0W-40 better according to my butt dyno.Been using this oil for at least 3 years now with great results.

 

[MGregoir]

The changes were only in the 0W-30, 0W-40 and 10W-30. The 15W-40 is offered in a CI-4+ and CJ-4 formulation still.

Here is the old data sheet:
http://web.archive.org/web/2006082520022..._Xd-3_extra.pdf

Here is the current data sheet:
http://www.esso.ca/Canada-English/Files/Products_Lubes/IOCAENCVLESEsso_Xd-3_extra.pdf

The biggest changes are the new formula include TBN decreasing from 12.2 to 7.7, sulfated ash going from 1.49% to 0.99%, and ZDDP going down to 1200 ppm from what I remember being between 1350 and 1500 ppm. I thought I saw that on a spec sheet, but maybe it was an older VOA.

 

[dannyb1990]

Sorry to be a newb, but are the changes done to the oil for the better or for the worse? Thinking of using the 0W-30 year round...

Thanks

 

[StevieC]

If the changes above listed are accurate (not implying they aren't) then it would be for the worse and would shorten the life of the oil.

In either case, each engine, driving pattern and climate is different and I would recommend that you do a couple of UOA's to gauge how well it holds up in your application and how long you can leave it in service "safely"

 

[Greaser]

When I sent a virgin sample of 0W-40 XD-3 in for testing they (Blackstone) reported only 800 ppm of ZDDP.It's in the virgin oil samples forums some where.Don't forget that base oil is as important, along with the additive package,to make a great oil.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Greaser
When I sent a virgin sample of 0W-40 XD-3 in for testing they (Blackstone) reported only 800 ppm of ZDDP.It's in the virgin oil samples forums some where.Don't forget that base oil is as important, along with the additive package,to make a great oil.


If you've seen some of the recent VOA's from Blackstone, you may not be all that confident in the accuracy

 

[21Rouge]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
If you've seen some of the recent VOA's from Blackstone, you may not be all that confident in the accuracy

+1