I'm DONE with "premium" oil filters

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I’m really liking the Super Tech MP line. Both of my vehicles take cartridges. However, my Kawasaki Mule and Zero Turn are now getting the Super Tech MP oil filters.
 
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It pains me to say it, but it seems the Chinese are making well built oil filters with good looking internals. Trouble is finding the efficiency specs, for example Hengst makes some filters in China, the internals look great, but cannot find the micron ratings for them anywhere.
Fram's Chinese cartridges show efficiency specs, and appear well built, with more even pleat spacing than their US-made versions often have.
 
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I would venture to guess that 75% of people have their oil changed with bulk oil and bulk filters and cars still keep going.

I would rather do shorter OCId and have less total PPMs of contaminants in the oil vs spending for a top tier filter.

Exactly, you do not need a super high efficient filter with short OCI's, though it doesn't hurt but its not changing anything.
 
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My 2013 Acura TL, which I’ve owned since new has 101K miles. I’ve switched from M1-110 to SP MP7317 and sells for 5.79 here California. Overall, it’s a well built filter for the price point. Expect to get 200,000-300,000 miles from this engine.
 

ZeeOSix

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Not a matter of "wearing out" an engine - that term is too nebulous. There's a big difference between kept in better mechanical condition and "worn out". It's possible to think an engine isn't "worn out" at 250K miles because it seems to "run good" to the driver. But it's also possible it could be in better mechanical condition (better compression, power, gas mileage, etc) if the oil was keep cleaner over that 250K miles. Cleaner oil means less wear - no study ever done shows otherwise. As mentioned in these discussions, the longer the OCI, the more efficient the filter should be to help keep the wear factor down. Engine wear due to dirty oil is a function of oil cleanliness times the number of times the sump capacity circulates through the oiling system.

For me, part of the proper maintenance is to keep the oil clean as possible, which means using oil filters that have ISO 4548-12 efficiency of 95% @ 20μ or better. It's easy and relatively cheap to do.
 
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Flow is the most important feature. Your engine would have to be full of abrasive debris, with no air filter in place for filtration to be the more important than flow and in this example failure is seconds away regardless.

People in Northern climates have no idea how often their engines oil filter goes into bypass mode due to the cold oil. So many revolutions without any filtration and the engines still last far longer than the owners care about.
 

ZeeOSix

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Flow is the most important feature. Your engine would have to be full of abrasive debris, with no air filter in place for filtration to be the more important than flow and in this example failure is seconds away regardless.
Please explain how one oil filter "flows more" than another when a PD oil pump is supplying oil to the engine.

People in Northern climates have no idea how often their engines oil filter goes into bypass mode due to the cold oil. So many revolutions without any filtration and the engine5s still last far longer than the owners care about.
When a filter goes into bypass for a very short time, the oil in the sump is already as clean as the filter has made it. That's not the same as circulating a dirtier sump through the engine continuously.

And not all cars in the USA rust out before the engine wears out. But if someone's does, they might as well just run no oil filter at all, lol.
 

JTK

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And not all cars in the USA rust out before the engine wears out. But if someone's does, they might as well just run no oil filter at all, lol.

So true. Especially where I live.

I do marvel at some of the u-toob auto tech channels from CA, FL, etc, where they're working on ~15yr/old cars with ~250K miles on them and they look nearly new underneath. Can almost bet they've seen nothing but low cost oil filters their whole lives as well.
 
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Please explain how one oil filter "flows more" than another when a PD oil pump is supplying oil to the engine.


When a filter goes into bypass for a very short time, the oil in the sump is already as clean as the filter has made it. That's not the same as circulating a dirtier sump through the engine continuously.

And not all cars in the USA rust out before the engine wears out. But if someone's does, they might as well just run no oil filter at all, lol.
I never made any statements about oil filters being inferior / superior, I said flow is more important. Secondly, very few people pay attention to the fact that engine oil is primarily operating in a closed system.
 
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OEM's for my vehicles are cheaper than anything but a ST, and I believe they're the most reliable in terms of quality. I don't know this for fact, but the people that do aren't talking, if they exist.
 

ZeeOSix

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I never made any statements about oil filters being inferior / superior, I said flow is more important.
I'll ask again ... how is one filter over another going to "flow better" and supply more oil to the engine? There really isn't such a thing as "flow over filtration" ... that's another never ending misconception. How would one filter not allow as much flow as another when a PD oil pump is forcing the oil through the filter and engine?

Secondly, very few people pay attention to the fact that engine oil is primarily operating in a closed system.
What's that have to do with anything?
 
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I remember back in the mid 80's I had a Chevy that took an AC Delco PF35 oil filter, well they came out with a PF35L oil filter that had synthetic media and claimed to reduce engine wear by 75% Well I guess Trak Auto did not realize what they had on there shelf since it was priced the same as a PF35. I think the price back then was like $4.00 an oil filter. I ended up driving around my area to a couple of different Trak Auto's and I picked up 12 of them and few months later they were going for double the price, I guess Trak Auto caught on.
 
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In my opinion, doing regular oil & filter changes is more important than using the very best materials. I used to agonize over finding oil filters with the best capacity & efficiency at the lowest price, but not anymore. When it comes to engine longevity, the air filter is more important than the oil filter.
 
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Do you have the efficiency ratings for Hengst filters made in Europe?
I email few time Hengst for efficiency ratings no reply I guess they worst efficiency compared competitors like Mann other that why no reply or no there website. Just my opinion
 
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Not a matter of "wearing out" an engine - that term is too nebulous. There's a big difference between kept in better mechanical condition and "worn out". It's possible to think an engine isn't "worn out" at 250K miles because it seems to "run good" to the driver. But it's also possible it could be in better mechanical condition (better compression, power, gas mileage, etc) if the oil was keep cleaner over that 250K miles. Cleaner oil means less wear - no study ever done shows otherwise. As mentioned in these discussions, the longer the OCI, the more efficient the filter should be to help keep the wear factor down. Engine wear due to dirty oil is a function of oil cleanliness times the number of times the sump capacity circulates through the oiling system.

For me, part of the proper maintenance is to keep the oil clean as possible, which means using oil filters that have ISO 4548-12 efficiency of 95% @ 20μ or better. It's easy and relatively cheap to do.
I read the million mile vehicle stories and they never report using a premium oil filter.
 

ZeeOSix

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I read the million mile vehicle stories and they never report using a premium oil filter.
How do you know exactly what oil, filters and OCIs were done over that entire 1 million miles ... you have all the maintenance records? Plus, those vehicles were driven about 90% on long steady highway use. There is a lot more to making it to a million miles beside what oil filter(s) were used ... but using an efficient oil filter vs not could make a difference in exactly what shape that engine was in a a million miles - that's the point you're missing. Just because it made it to a million miles doing maintenance "abc" doesn't mean it couldn't have been better or worse at 1 million miles if maintenance "xyz" was done instead. Keeping the oil cleaner than not can only be beneficial to keeping wear lower.

It's funny how people discount oil filtration just because engines don't "blow-up" at 250K+ miles using low efficiency filters. Like said before, there's a big difference between "blown-up" and reduced mechanical health. I've seen engines in pretty bad mechanical shape (low compression, worn cam lobes, worn out bearings, etc) that still seem to "run good" when behind the steering wheel. Lots of people don't seem to realize that if the sump is dirtier and circulated more (ie, low filtration with a long OCI) that increased wear can correlate directly to that. If you aren't dumping the oil every 2000-3000 miles then a more efficient oil filter will help keep the sump cleaner. Still waiting for the official study that shows there is no difference in engine (or any other lubricated mechanical device) wear based on the cleanliness of lubricant.
 
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How do you know exactly what oil, filters and OCIs were done over that entire 1 million miles ... you have all the maintenance records? Plus, those vehicles were driven about 90% on long steady highway use. There is a lot more to making it to a million miles beside what oil filter(s) were used ... but using an efficient oil filter vs not could make a difference in exactly what shape that engine was in a a million miles - that's the point you're missing. Just because it made it to a million miles doing maintenance "abc" doesn't mean it couldn't have been better or worse at 1 million miles if maintenance "xyz" was done instead. Keeping the oil cleaner than not can only be beneficial to keeping wear lower.

It's funny how people discount oil filtration just because engines don't "blow-up" at 250K+ miles using low efficiency filters. Like said before, there's a big difference between "blown-up" and reduced mechanical health. I've seen engines in pretty bad mechanical shape (low compression, worn cam lobes, worn out bearings, etc) that still seem to "run good" when behind the steering wheel. Lots of people don't seem to realize that if the sump is dirtier and circulated more (ie, low filtration with a long OCI) that increased wear can correlate directly to that. If you aren't dumping the oil every 2000-3000 miles then a more efficient oil filter will help keep the sump cleaner. Still waiting for the official study that shows there is no difference in engine (or any other lubricated mechanical device) wear based on the cleanliness of lubricant.
To echo on what zee said I've seen low compression and more, with almost zero signs that an unknowingly buyer could miss.. Once an engine is warm/ran and cool/cold previously alot of the symptoms can disappear.. Just some food for thought.
 
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