...for those that get concerned by the 20 grades, fortunately most 30 grades are on the lighter side so going up a grade won't be an issue. But the data shows IMO that 20 grades have proven themselves as engines are lasting longer than ever.
ILSAC GF6 Chain Wear Test
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I did – and then linked to it in this chain wear... thread. Then read your attempt of a summary and thought: Wow, the mansplaining millionaires are getting really unreal down to earth ;-)
The rest of the article doesn't deal with much, it's not like looking into Lubrizol's low visco helping cam lobes or looking into some SAE12 OSP or IL or doped something compared to an xW-30 somewhere else in an engine where again BOV et al. could be more convincing than more popular thickness in the pan.
Wear data would be missing, that would be true. But the handy table plus the lines below added up to something "based upon an inherent property of the base stock" you were looking for. It told us to not be misled by traditionals around more widespread viscosity data.
The rest of the article doesn't deal with much, it's not like looking into Lubrizol's low visco helping cam lobes or looking into some SAE12 OSP or IL or doped something compared to an xW-30 somewhere else in an engine where again BOV et al. could be more convincing than more popular thickness in the pan.
Wear data would be missing, that would be true. But the handy table plus the lines below added up to something "based upon an inherent property of the base stock" you were looking for. It told us to not be misled by traditionals around more widespread viscosity data.
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It also tells us that there are some interesting additives being used in these oils that will not be picked up in a consumer analysis.
Most definitely. If you looked at Mobil 1 from 2005 it looked almost identical to Amsoil from 2015. 270ppm of Boron, and 3,200 ppm of Ca. Metallic additives have been reduced and newer additives have replaced them. The end result is an oil that looks "frail"
on paper but is actually a better overall oil.Statis
“Quite often” is relative. Fewer than 1% of vehicles in the USA make it to 200,000 miles, be it due to to wrecks, rust, required engine repairs or whatever.
I'm one of those that still believe thicker is better when it comes to protection. I ran 5w-30 in my 98 F-150 even after Ford back spec'd 5w-20. I ran 5w-30 in a 3.8L JKU Wrangler later a JLU 3.6L Wrangler with no issues. The 3.8L spec'd 5w-20 and the 3.6L 0w-20. Trying to decide if I want to run 0w-40 or stick with 5w-30 in my new Ford Ranger with the 2.3L EB TGDI engine.
I recently changed the cam chains, tensioners and guides on that 98 Ford Triton 4.6L V8 with 240,000 miles. There was knocking/rattling in front of the engine that convinced me they were bad. I was surprised to find they were in great shape. I changed them anyway since I was there. That engine had always had synthetic 5w-30 with 5k OCIs. M1 for the first 100,000 miles or so then Super Tech. Engine is still going strong. Oh, that knocking/rattling? Turns out it was a bad bearing in the A/C compressor pully.
I recently changed the cam chains, tensioners and guides on that 98 Ford Triton 4.6L V8 with 240,000 miles. There was knocking/rattling in front of the engine that convinced me they were bad. I was surprised to find they were in great shape. I changed them anyway since I was there. That engine had always had synthetic 5w-30 with 5k OCIs. M1 for the first 100,000 miles or so then Super Tech. Engine is still going strong. Oh, that knocking/rattling? Turns out it was a bad bearing in the A/C compressor pully.
Statis
“Quite often” is relative. Fewer than 1% of vehicles in the USA make it to 200,000 miles, be it due to to wrecks, rust, required engine repairs or whatever.
So are we talking about engines that go to 200,000 miles without any repair? A required engine repair within that many miles would surely include a water pump or other repairs.
Original owners might see a expensive repair bill and sense that the car is going to become a money pit so they trade it. The next owner may very well run it for a long time afterwards.
From what i read, the wear the GF6 spec is helping against, is the crud getting into the chain links.
That was my understanding as well.
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Most definitely. If you looked at Mobil 1 from 2005 it looked almost identical to Amsoil from 2015. 270ppm of Boron, and 3,200 ppm of Ca. Metallic additives have been reduced and newer additives have replaced them. The end result is an oil that looks "frail"
I can't recall who said it, but I remember when we first started discussing the AFE oils it was discovered that Mobil was using organic additives that wouldn't show up on a UOA to improve AW performance, reduce friction...etc.
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I compare this discussion to the never ending RP discussion. Members say it’s identical to Valvoline via analyses,but will state that analyses can’t disclose all the ingredients.
wemay
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wemay
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wemay
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The only time i've had a concern is with the EA888 equipped Passat. In the past (pre-2018), VW approval required an HTHS of 3.5. Now they've come down to 2.6 / 2.7. That is quite a drop! My concerns may not be founded since some very significant changes did occur but it's taking me some time to get it through my thick skull.
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For the sake of changing it up a bit...RP is the same as Napa Synthetic.
How many of them do you actually think would have blown up had they made it to 200k miles?Statis
“Quite often” is relative. Fewer than 1% of vehicles in the USA make it to 200,000 miles, be it due to to wrecks, rust, required engine repairs or whatever.
A lot of people keep saying how engines last so much longer these days, then someone says 200k miles is a big accomplishment. I've had quite a few of my 70s and 80s V8s (305 Chevy's and 350 Olds) last over 200k, one with 332k and these are from the era people here often say didn't last long. These miles weren't highway miles put on in 10 years they were over 20-30+ years. All that was needed was some cheap gaskets and seals.
The 4.6 had some timing chain tensioner failures that became common in the mid 2000s IIRC. I don't think the earlier ones had any issues besides valve seals and cracked plastic intake manifolds on some of them.
It must be a lot higher than 1% of those that get a fair chance. I've known too many over 200k to believe that's rare.
There's no excuse for a well maintained engine that hasn't been abused to need major repair at such low mileage.
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