ILSAC GF6 Chain Wear Test

[ARCOgraphite]

Thicker does not equate better. unless you have statistical data and peer-reviewed studies to back up your claim it is nothing more than an opinion and not fact.

Data with opinion is still not fact, either. FACT is more than data. In complex studies, it gets more and more difficult to make any statement of fact.

What is better? If I'm drinking a Vanilla Malted milkshake (yummy!) and it too thick to for air pressure to push the concoction up my narrow, paper straw to satiate,
I would then say, "spoon is better!"

 

[TrainingPolicy]

Our VW 1.4 TSI uses a belt.

Funny two people quoted this post listing the same car as a I4 with a timing belt instead of chain. Notice I said MOST not all. I know there are examples with belts still. Subaru changed all theirs to chains I believe in '12 or '13, Honda I4's all have chains, Toyotas all have chains, IDK about Ford, Mazda, Chevy.

 

[gregk24]

Funny two people quoted this post listing the same car as a I4 with a timing belt instead of chain. Notice I said MOST not all. I know there are examples with belts still. Subaru changed all theirs to chains I believe in '12 or '13, Honda I4's all have chains, Toyotas all have chains, IDK about Ford, Mazda, Chevy.

Yes, certainly most do! I am not looking forward to the cost of replacing the belt if we have the Jetta long enough, but hopefully it will be added peace of mind vs having a chain. Our previous VW started exhibiting chain issues and was known for stretching timing chains so we were able to get out of that car and into our new one.

 

[PimTac]

Funny two people quoted this post listing the same car as a I4 with a timing belt instead of chain. Notice I said MOST not all. I know there are examples with belts still. Subaru changed all theirs to chains I believe in '12 or '13, Honda I4's all have chains, Toyotas all have chains, IDK about Ford, Mazda, Chevy.

Mazda uses chains.

 

[Jetronic]

Funny two people quoted this post listing the same car as a I4 with a timing belt instead of chain. Notice I said MOST not all. I know there are examples with belts still. Subaru changed all theirs to chains I believe in '12 or '13, Honda I4's all have chains, Toyotas all have chains, IDK about Ford, Mazda, Chevy.

hyundai is moving away from chains again

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Funny two people quoted this post listing the same car as a I4 with a timing belt instead of chain. Notice I said MOST not all. I know there are examples with belts still. Subaru changed all theirs to chains I believe in '12 or '13, Honda I4's all have chains, Toyotas all have chains, IDK about Ford, Mazda, Chevy.

VW was using chains and found them problematic - Because they are! Maybe they saw that Audi v8 chain nightmare and woke up.
DOHC is NOT a pushrod V8. Even then you would need a new timing chain set at 90K which is the replacement interval for many belts.
I warned of this on this forum over a decade ago. Most welcomed the freedome from the belt service interval. I said not too fast. There are many, many engine/vehicles with TCT and guide issues.
Controlling a 6-8 foot long timing chain moving at a high liner velocity is not an easy engineering task. Then you have this issue where the chain tends to aerate the oil, also pump it up the front cover from the the sump when cold; Nevermind the handful of bits of broken off polymer guides collecting on the oil sump pickup screen.

I say: No to Chains.

Alternatively, a light whipping would be amenable ...

GM 3.6L V6 timing system:

 

[MaDMaXX]

I like that Ford pretty much "wrote" the GF6 requirements with all their chain issues in the Ecoboost engines these past ten years.

Speaking of GF6, has anyone found GF6 bottles in the wild yet? seems to be still GF5 stock being used up.
I did see a few manufacturers list their specs for the GF5 and 6 versions, with the GF6 being a higher cSt than the same spec GF5 oil.

 

[Dadof5]

I like that Ford pretty much "wrote" the GF6 requirements with all their chain issues in the Ecoboost engines these past ten years.

Speaking of GF6, has anyone found GF6 bottles in the wild yet? seems to be still GF5 stock being used up.
I did see a few manufacturers list their specs for the GF5 and 6 versions, with the GF6 being a higher cSt than the same spec GF5 oil.

Yes, Valvoline, Penzoil and Mobil 1 are out with SP

 

[AJB0009]

My 2.5L in my 2012 Fusion has a chain.
A good example of A LOT of chain problems is the 4.0L Ford in Explorers, Mustangs, Rangers, etc. All sorts of tensioner and guide failures.
I know that a few years ago the Honda 3.5L in Odysseys and Pilots had a belt. Do they still?
Chain or belt - there are mechanical components (bearings, tensioners, etc.) and mechanical components wear out and fail. It seems like often a broken belt isn't because the belt broke, it's because a water pump bearing or a tensioner bearing failed, locked up, causing the belt to heat up and break.
A big question is are current engines with belts interference engines? A broken belt almost always = a junk motor.
A belt is going to be quieter, right?
Random thoughts...

 

[Blinker]

My 2.5L in my 2012 Fusion has a chain.
A good example of A LOT of chain problems is the 4.0L Ford in Explorers, Mustangs, Rangers, etc. All sorts of tensioner and guide failures.
I know that a few years ago the Honda 3.5L in Odysseys and Pilots had a belt. Do they still?
Chain or belt - there are mechanical components (bearings, tensioners, etc.) and mechanical components wear out and fail. It seems like often a broken belt isn't because the belt broke, it's because a water pump bearing or a tensioner bearing failed, locked up, causing the belt to heat up and break.
A big question is are current engines with belts interference engines? A broken belt almost always = a junk motor.
A belt is going to be quieter, right?
Random thoughts...

LOL the Honda 3.5 V6 has had a belt since it’s inception. Regarding broken belts = junk motor. The same can be said for broken chains = junk motor too. It depends on if the engine is an interference design. The 4.0 SOHC Ford V6 had some problems for a number of years in the Explorers and Rangers. I think by 2005 the issue was mostly resolved. I’ve been around a lot of 2005-2010 4.0 Mustangs and I can’t think of one that I know of that had a timing chain problem.

 

[IveBeenRued]

I find it interesting that they are able to get measurable chain stretch in such a short amount of time; the Sequence IX and X tests only total 224 hours on the chain. Not sure if that highlights how grueling the tests are or how poorly designed the Ford Ecoboost 2.0L timing chain system is.

https://www.motorindiaonline.in/gue...cation-almost-a-decade-in-the-making-is-here/

 

[wpod]

Idiot engine designers.

 

[gregk24]

Sure because that's engine replacement time too.

The 1.4 TSI generally has a good track record.

 

[Snagglefoot]

Is it possible to have too many chains?

 

[MaDMaXX]

The issue is crap in the chain links, so GF6 is to help prevent that - their testing isn't going to be real time.....

 

[Jackson_Slugger]

I really don't understand this trend in thinning oils. At this point, it is going on worldwide, not just in the US. Although Europe has a more sane classification system and also offers the option of having higher-performing motor oils like ACEA A3.

...

I'm not really sure it's still a "trend" twenty years on...

 

[ka9mnx]

The issue is crap in the chain links, so GF6 is to help prevent that - their testing isn't going to be real time.....

As I have said many times, chain wear is directly related to abused oil changes. As it was true in years past of in block cam chains.

 

[kschachn]

then by your logic, one can discount the research and development people took to design engines with tight tolerances to run on specific viscosities. and by your logic, one should drain 0w16 out of a brand new motor and put in 10W40 in because your logic thicker is better. But don't listen to those that have designed the engine to only run on the thinner viscosity.

That “research and development” has nothing to do with decreased wear.

In general thicker is better in every way except for fuel economy.

 

[350Rocket]

As I have said many times, chain wear is directly related to abused oil changes. As it was true in years past of in block cam chains.

240k of 3k mile conventional 5w20 oil changes on my mom's 2010 Taurus 3.5, resulted in extremely worn out chains. She bought it new. Sold it to a mechanic I know when the water pump failed. He replaced all the chains and guides etc. It was close to the end. Makes me wonder what better oil at longer intervals would have done.

 

[aquariuscsm]

240k of 3k mile conventional 5w20 oil changes on my mom's 2010 Taurus 3.5, resulted in extremely worn out chains. She bought it new. Sold it to a mechanic I know when the water pump failed. He replaced all the chains and guides etc. It was close to the end. Makes me wonder what better oil at longer intervals would have done.

I wonder if a W30 would’ve been better for the chains? Back before W20 became chic,I never once heard of chain probs.