I WANT TO CHANGE MY OIL IN MY HONDA CR-V!!

[Trav]

JOD what the heck are you on about with this..
Quote:
I lube the chain on my bicycle one a week, but it's not going to affect when I dump the factory fill on a car

Fact is Honda wanted to get the wear particles out of the engine early, nothing more.
Quote:
but none of your assumptions really hold much water

That's your opinion.
Quote:
what is the FF recommendation in countries without the EPA?


Per Honda.de All Honda models 10w30 or 5w40, diesels 0w30.

Quote:
Ölverwendung
In der Regel wird für alle Honda Fahrzeuge Motorenöl der Spezifikation 10W 30 oder 5W 40 bei der Werksbefüllung verwendet. Bei den Fahrzeugen mit Dieselmotoren und Rußpartikelfilter finden Öle der Spezifikation 0W-30 Verwendung.

 

[JOD]

Originally Posted By: Trav
JOD what the heck are you on about with this..


My point is that my bicycle's maintenance habits have about as much relevance (IMO) as your 20 year old motorcycle. They're different engines, with different requirements.

Originally Posted By: Trav

Per Honda.de All Honda models 10w30 or 5w40, diesels 0w30.

Quote:
Ölverwendung
In der Regel wird für alle Honda Fahrzeuge Motorenöl der Spezifikation 10W 30 oder 5W 40 bei der Werksbefüllung verwendet. Bei den Fahrzeugen mit Dieselmotoren und Rußpartikelfilter finden Öle der Spezifikation 0W-30 Verwendung.


I'm not asking about viscosity, I'm asking about duration. What are the required drain intervals in countries without the EPA?

 

[91344George]

Originally Posted By: Trav
Quote:
Any debris from the manufacturing process will be captured by the oil filter, I'm not sure why folks overlook this fact.




What part do those particles have go through before it gets to the filter?
It wouldn't be one that has extremely close tolerances would it?


You think that the engineers at Honda don't consider such things?

It is likely that the fresh engines are pretty darn clean these days and that any debris that is left is very, very tiny. Small enough that no damage will occur.

It's great to have our own opinions but I will take the advice of the engineers at Honda over random people on the internet.

 

[Trav]

Quote:
My point is that my bicycle's maintenance habits have about as much relevance (IMO) as your 20 year old motorcycle. They're different engines, with different requirements.


I completely disagree.
The bike my well be 20 yrs old but it has a lot in common with today's engines.
Aluminium block and heads.
DOHC.
Water cooling.
High pressure oiling system including oil pan and spin on filter.
Hemispherical combustion chambers.
Sodium filled valve stems with stellite seats.
12:1 compression ratio.
Short skirted pistons.
Forged rods and crank.
Close tolerance tri metal bearings and moly rings.
Smooth bore cylinders.

I would say it has a lot more in common with a modern car engine than a bicycle wouldn't you?

AFAIK Honda.de is still advocating 1000 KM first OC for cars using 10w30 or 5w40 oil and 10k Km (6K mi) after that but i will verify that on Tuesday with a call.
My friend just bought a new Civic in July 2011 and IIRC his first OC was 1K Km or 600 miles..

 

[Oil Changer]

Originally Posted By: Coprolite
It has synthetic in there now and I'd kill for affordable PP 0w20 for my next TSX OC. I am just trying to patiently await the arrival of the SN PU.

The only thing that overcomes my OC impulses is the owner's manual / manufacturer's recommendations.

Dropping the FF early, would that lead to 3/3000 OCIs in the future?


I e-mailed Pennzoil asking when I could expect Ultra in 0W-20.

The response was that there were no plans on producing Ultra in 0W-20.

You might want to think about Platinum. My WM always have it 6 jugs deep on the shelf. Maybe I'm just lucky in that regard.

 

[Oil Changer]

Like I wrote in the first post, I will wait until the OLM reads 15% (or close enough!)and dump it.

I'm just finding it difficult to do after a lifetime of changing the FF early.

On one new vehicle, I changed the FF out at 50 miles. Yes, five zero.

 

[Oil Changer]

Originally Posted By: Trav
Quote:
My point is that my bicycle's maintenance habits have about as much relevance (IMO) as your 20 year old motorcycle. They're different engines, with different requirements.


I completely disagree.
The bike my well be 20 yrs old but it has a lot in common with today's engines.
Aluminium block and heads.
DOHC.
Water cooling.
High pressure oiling system including oil pan and spin on filter.
Hemispherical combustion chambers.
Sodium filled valve stems with stellite seats.
12:1 compression ratio.
Short skirted pistons.
Forged rods and crank.
Close tolerance tri metal bearings and moly rings.
Smooth bore cylinders.

I would say it has a lot more in common with a modern car engine than a bicycle wouldn't you?

AFAIK Honda.de is still advocating 1000 KM first OC for cars using 10w30 or 5w40 oil and 10k Km (6K mi) after that but i will verify that on Tuesday with a call.
My friend just bought a new Civic in July 2011 and IIRC his first OC was 1K Km or 600 miles..


I do not doubt you but I will say that an early change of oil in Europe seems to be contrasting.

I know oil resources are even more precious there than in the US of A.

Seems like things should be the other way around.

 

[Trav]

Quote:
It's great to have our own opinions but I will take the advice of the engineers at Honda over random people on the internet.



You assume the information is coming from engineers when in fact many times the opinion of engineers are ignored.
Many times the bean counters and marketing departments have a lot to do with decisions that are made.
Quote:
It is likely that the fresh engines are pretty darn clean these days and that any debris that is left is very, very tiny.

Ford for example (not a Ford bash just a fact) had a recall on some 5.4 modulars because there was machining debris caught between the head and block causing oil leaks.
Its not like engines were thrown together in dirty conditions and sent out the door.

Fact is blocks are still bored and cranks and camshafts are still ground pretty much the way they always were.
As JOD pointed out UOA's on FF always show an increase in wear particles.

The OP asked for opinions and i gave mine, it makes no difference to me when someone changes their oil.
I will continue to change mine as i see fit for the reasons i stated.
If you disagree thats fine change your oil or not when you want.

 

[Trav]

Quote:
I know oil resources are even more precious there than in the US of A.

Seems like things should be the other way around.

Yes you would but consider the environment the engine will be operating under.
Germans in particular are not known to be light footed, the car will be taken on the autobahn and flogged for an extended period probably right out of the showroom.
Telling a German to drive easy and break it in is like strapping a crack addict to a chair and putting crack right in front of him/her, they can only refrain for so long.

I have no doubt this is the reason.

 

[Coprolite]

Originally Posted By: Oil Changer
Originally Posted By: Coprolite
It has synthetic in there now and I'd kill for affordable PP 0w20 for my next TSX OC. I am just trying to patiently await the arrival of the SN PU.

The only thing that overcomes my OC impulses is the owner's manual / manufacturer's recommendations.

Dropping the FF early, would that lead to 3/3000 OCIs in the future?


I e-mailed Pennzoil asking when I could expect Ultra in 0W-20.

The response was that there were no plans on producing Ultra in 0W-20.

You might want to think about Platinum. My WM always have it 6 jugs deep on the shelf. Maybe I'm just lucky in that regard.


Sorry that I wasn't very concise in the original post. I can't get my hands on any Pennzoil 0w, so I will have to save my "experimenting" for the SN PU 5w20 that appears to have super low NOACK and other good stuff...

 

[91344George]

Originally Posted By: Trav
Quote:
I know oil resources are even more precious there than in the US of A.

Seems like things should be the other way around.

Yes you would but consider the environment the engine will be operating under.
Germans in particular are not known to be light footed, the car will be taken on the autobahn and flogged for an extended period probably right out of the showroom.
Telling a German to drive easy and break it in is like strapping a crack addict to a chair and putting crack right in front of him/her, they can only refrain for so long.

I have no doubt this is the reason.



Actually what you say is contrary to what I know from my German relatives and their friends. They are very observant of what the owner's manuals indicate when breaking in a new car. If it is written in the manual , that is what is done.

Also Honda and other manufactures DO NOT want high numbers of warranty repair work due to defects from left over casting debris left in engines. The amount and size of this is very very small today, the particulates are so small in number and size that they will almost never cause damage, but of course as with any mass produced item there can always be exceptions but when you consider how many millions of engines are produced the scattering of issues is not significant enough to warrant early oil changes. If there is a large enough piece of debris left behind it will likely cause severe enough damage that even left in for 600 miles escaping the oil filter it will be too late.
But this is a RARE event.

 

[Trav]

Quote:
They are very observant of what the owner's manuals indicate when breaking in a new car. If it is written in the manual , that is what is done.


That hasn't been my experience and i was there 1958 when i was born until 05.

 

[91344George]

Originally Posted By: Trav
Quote:
They are very observant of what the owner's manuals indicate when breaking in a new car. If it is written in the manual , that is what is done.


That hasn't been my experience and i was there 1958 when i was born until 05.


Well I can't believe they are all BSing me, but I guess they could be. I just know that when I have stayed over there with various friends and relatives they all seem to be very observant when it comes to such things.

Also true that experiences may differ.

 

[Coprolite]

Originally Posted By: 91344George
Originally Posted By: Trav
Quote:
They are very observant of what the owner's manuals indicate when breaking in a new car. If it is written in the manual , that is what is done.


That hasn't been my experience and i was there 1958 when i was born until 05.


Well I can't believe they are all BSing me, but I guess they could be. I just know that when I have stayed over there with various friends and relatives they all seem to be very observant when it comes to such things.

Also true that experiences may differ.


Generalizing about all Germans is about as effective as doing it for Americans.

 

[freezing1]

I was in the same boat with our '10 CR-V when it was new. It took patience, but I left the factory fill in until the indicator read 15%, which was ~7600 miles.

It just turned 43,000 miles and doesn't burn a drop. Leaving the factory fill in for the full interval was the right decision.

 

[LckydevL]

I have a 6mos old '11 Civic LX with about 6k on it right now. I went through this same argument in my head about the factory fill change out schedule using the MM.

I was ready to dump the FF at 1k but kept reading about all the fantastic Honda UOA's with the FF at 5k and more. Sure there were high metals and other junk floating around but new engines take awhile to settle down anyway. And the UOA's were showing the oil itself was still in excellent health.

I dumped the FF at 5K (oil life was still 40%) and felt like it was a good cross section of the info I had to go ahead with the oil change. It would probably be different for a another driver/vehicle on this same model. So I can't really see any hard and fast rules to change FF or any OCI for that matter.

There are just too many variables to consider with each driver and each car individually to make rules set in stone

Just using common sense, taking in all the info available and finding a good cross section has helped me take several vehicles to over 200K.

Call me paranoid, but I don't trust anyone trying to sell me something.

 

[Indydriver]

Oil Changer, you sound a lot like me. I've always been an early changer. I also loved Trav's MC example because I still own that same bike. Anyway, mine is a VCM V6 which has proven to be much harder on oil than Honda's fours. When we took delivery of our car, the dealer practically threatened us not to change the oil early. So, for the first time in my 40 years of maintaining motorcycles and cars, I left the FF in until 6300 miles which was 10% on the MM. After all the discussion and worry, I decided to do a UOA in hopes of learning something about this oil and it's condition after following the factory/dealer recommendation. You may have already read this thread but here it is in case you haven't:

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/2011-honda-accord-vcm-v6-factory-fill-6-300-mi.167183/

My conclusions? At this OCI the FF in my V6 was certainly heavily contaminated and pretty well used up. Did it hurt anything? Impossible to say at the present time. Would it have helped to change it sooner? Probably wouldn't hurt. Will I do it again? Id probably limit the first run to no more than 5000 mi. BTW, I refilled with Honda brand 0W-20 and OE filter just to make sure there were no questions if this ended up being an oil burner or has any other warranty issues. Anyway, good luck with your Honda. I'm sure with the way your going to baby it, it will last a very ling time.

 

[Trav]

Quote:
Well I can't believe they are all BSing me, but I guess they could be. I just know that when I have stayed over there with various friends and relatives they all seem to be very observant when it comes to such things.


No they are not BSing you, they are for the most part very maintenance concious and i'm sure in their mind they were driving slow.
It sounds like you have been there so you know what slow is on the autobahns, its almost impossible to do 65 mph unless your in a truck or a bus.

 

[Oil Changer]

Originally Posted By: Indydriver
Oil Changer, you sound a lot like me. I've always been an early changer. I also loved Trav's MC example because I still own that same bike. Anyway, mine is a VCM V6 which has proven to be much harder on oil than Honda's fours. When we took delivery of our car, the dealer practically threatened us not to change the oil early. So, for the first time in my 40 years of maintaining motorcycles and cars, I left the FF in until 6300 miles which was 10% on the MM. After all the discussion and worry, I decided to do a UOA in hopes of learning something about this oil and it's condition after following the factory/dealer recommendation. You may have already read this thread but here it is in case you haven't:

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/2011-honda-accord-vcm-v6-factory-fill-6-300-mi.167183/

My conclusions? At this OCI the FF in my V6 was certainly heavily contaminated and pretty well used up. Did it hurt anything? Impossible to say at the present time. Would it have helped to change it sooner? Probably wouldn't hurt. Will I do it again? Id probably limit the first run to no more than 5000 mi. BTW, I refilled with Honda brand 0W-20 and OE filter just to make sure there were no questions if this ended up being an oil burner or has any other warranty issues. Anyway, good luck with your Honda. I'm sure with the way your going to baby it, it will last a very ling time.


Thanks for the link and yes, I did read that thread. I've spent lots of time going through the UOA/VOA sections looking for anything Honda related.

From the responses in this thread and preconceived thoughts, I'm going to change the FF at 5000 regardless what the OLM reads. IDK, maybe a little longer if the OLM is ~25%. Also, I too will use the factory Honda 0W-20 and Honda filter for the first replacement.

For all: I will do a UOA when I dump the factory fill and a VOA on the Honda oil from the dealer using Blackstone. I'll use Blackstone because that is what most here use, and I have used in the past.

I want to see the properties of the FF oil and see how different the dealer supplied oil is from the FF. The results can also be used to determine what aftermarket oil meets or exceeds what is being sold under the Honda name.

Don't hold your breath. It will probably be close to spring by the time the CR-V hits 5000 miles.

 

[Oil Changer]

I just re-read Indy's link and want to change my oil.

Really, how can all that junk floating around in the FF be good for anything?

Who can say matter-of-factly that engineers determined when to change the oil?

Who can say matter-of-factly that the oil I can buy is not WAY better than the FF?

How can slowing down the break-in (wear) be a bad thing long term or short?

Like many will [correctly] say, now or later, removing the FF will not hurt anything. Piece of mind is priceless.

I'm flopping around like a fish out of water.