I WANT TO CHANGE MY OIL IN MY HONDA CR-V!!

[RichR]

I am also a first time Honda owner('10 Ridgeline).
Going by the MM on the FF was a nail biter for me.
I comprimsed and changed the oil filter and topped it off @ 50%.
When the MM alerted to 15% I dumped the FF.
Now I go with it and use synthetic and change the oil filter each time.But I never let the MM get lower than 15$.
Going to try next oci.
ARCO great post on the HTHS to be used in seasonal oil choices!!
Thanks

 

[silverrat]

Another six page thread that solved nothing.

 

[91344George]

Originally Posted By: silverrat
Another six page thread that solved nothing.


Absolutely. All one has to do is simply read and follow the Honda Owner's Manual. Problem solved!

 

[ARCOgraphite]

That works as long as you are not ocd about oil changes

 

[Hounds]

Originally Posted By: silverrat
Another six page thread that solved nothing.

Oh, but we have. We've seen demonstrated yet again that there are lots of compulsive/obsessive folks, some of whom actually own Honda automobiles, who want to do something to cope with their concerns, and there are those who have read their owner's manual and/or visited ahm-ownerslink.com and trust the specific written advice of world's largest engine manufacturer.

 

[Oil Changer]

Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
That works as long as you are not ocd about oil changes

I'm trying. FF is still in.

 

[Oil Changer]

Originally Posted By: Hounds
Originally Posted By: silverrat
Another six page thread that solved nothing.

Oh, but we have. We've seen demonstrated yet again that there are lots of compulsive/obsessive folks, some of whom actually own Honda automobiles, who want to do something to cope with their concerns, and there are those who have read their owner's manual and/or visited ahm-ownerslink.com and trust the specific written advice of world's largest engine manufacturer.


Who wrote the manual? Engineers, lawyers, bean counters, all the above?

I bet all the above.

My neighbor is a retired body design engineer for GM. He has told me in the past of the epic battles between him and the other engineers who in the end all had to compromise to complete an automobile.

I bet the same applies in the case of owners manuals and maintenance intervals.

 

[67Customs]

Originally Posted By: 91344George
I am as jaundiced as anyone about the potential for the marketing hacks to have too much influence in the manufacture vehicles but honestly I seriously doubt that Honda wants a bunch of irate customers complaining due to improper OCI, so I am certain that the instructions given by Honda in the owner's manual are there for practical, logical, and mechanical reasons, not marketing reasons.

If you want irate customers, recommend a 100 mile oil change so that the dealer can get rid of the major new engine wear factory fill oil and install a special oil that will help the engine's natural wear pattern develope for the next 4900 miles.

See how many people that have never heard of BITOG like that idea.

I think most of us can agree that running the FF for 1000 miles and dumping vs. 5000 miles and dumping will probably not make much of a difference in modern day engines longevity. So, even if the engineers did all confirm that there would be some beneficial help in having the customer come in for a 100 mile OC (or even a 1000 mile OC), the marketing department is going to say that the minimal beneficial gain isn't worth losing customers because Honda has a "stupid maintenance schedule and is just trying to get more of your money."

The marketing department and bean counters just want the engineering department to confirm that dumping the FF fill at 5000-7500 miles is at least going to make the engine 95% "perfect" instead of 100% "perfect".

My opinion... the bottom line wins, not the engineers. Ford Pinto anyone?

So, just because Ford/Honda/Toyota/GM/... recommend something, it probably doesn't mean it the absolute best thing for your car. However, I will say that following what they recommend will generally yield an enjoyable ownership experience. For the majority of drivers, this is plenty. Some people here on BITOG strive for perfection, even if we don't actually know what that perfection is.lol

 

[Hounds]

Originally Posted By: Oil Changer
Originally Posted By: Hounds
Originally Posted By: silverrat
Another six page thread that solved nothing.

Oh, but we have. We've seen demonstrated yet again that there are lots of compulsive/obsessive folks, some of whom actually own Honda automobiles, who want to do something to cope with their concerns, and there are those who have read their owner's manual and/or visited ahm-ownerslink.com and trust the specific written advice of world's largest engine manufacturer.


Who wrote the manual? Engineers, lawyers, bean counters, all the above? . . . My neighbor is a retired body design engineer for GM. He has told me in the past of the epic battles between him and the other engineers who in the end all had to compromise to complete an automobile. . . . I bet the same applies in the case of owners manuals and maintenance intervals.

Personally, I don't think the opinion of a retired GM body design engineer brings anything meaningful to a discussion of tribology or Honda engine maintenance.

On the other hand, this explicit advice from Honda's owner's link is right on point: "There is absolutely no benefit in changing your oil more frequently than recommended in your owner's manual. This will only increase your cost of ownership, and create an unnecessary burden upon the environment by increasing the amount of disposed oil." (www.ahm-ownerslink.com)

 

[Oil Changer]

Originally Posted By: Hounds
Originally Posted By: Oil Changer
Originally Posted By: Hounds
Originally Posted By: silverrat
Another six page thread that solved nothing.

Oh, but we have. We've seen demonstrated yet again that there are lots of compulsive/obsessive folks, some of whom actually own Honda automobiles, who want to do something to cope with their concerns, and there are those who have read their owner's manual and/or visited ahm-ownerslink.com and trust the specific written advice of world's largest engine manufacturer.


Who wrote the manual? Engineers, lawyers, bean counters, all the above? . . . My neighbor is a retired body design engineer for GM. He has told me in the past of the epic battles between him and the other engineers who in the end all had to compromise to complete an automobile. . . . I bet the same applies in the case of owners manuals and maintenance intervals.

Personally, I don't think the opinion of a retired GM body design engineer brings anything meaningful to a discussion of tribology or Honda engine maintenance.

On the other hand, this explicit advice from Honda's owner's link is right on point: "There is absolutely no benefit in changing your oil more frequently than recommended in your owner's manual. This will only increase your cost of ownership, and create an unnecessary burden upon the environment by increasing the amount of disposed oil." (www.ahm-ownerslink.com)


Personally, I think it does.

I'll have to ask him to be sure, but I don't think he wrote the chapter in the owners manual that dealt with exterior body care.

You state pretty matter-of-factly that engineers are giving the advice outlined in the manual and Owners Link with no supporting evidence.

Myself and a few others agree there is more to it.

The engineer that Honda pulled away from his engine design duties sure seems to care alot about my cost of ownership and the environment.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

If it was 5w30 garbage SM/SN FF oils left in for 7-10K it would be sheared dangerously out of grade, the safety margin for engine ovverrun would be NIL and the oil will surely be loaded with 0.7 mil and smaller particles. Note that Rod bushing (plain bearing)clearances can be under 0.5 mils. You do the math. You will absolute have excessive/undue wear leaving the FF in more than 3 months/ 3K miles. Adding a filter could help certain "bypass washing out of particulate" but the small stuff will still be in there in spades. Many filters will bypass HOT, high RPM - this is not just a cold flow only factor.
That "the Honda engineers know best" is an ignorant argument, esp If you are a professional engineer. We argue amoungst ourselves constantly

Car Co's are only concerned about the engine median service life being 6sigma past 90-130K miles. There is no major downside to a lackadaisical first service. A more fastideous maintenance/service might get you to 300K.
So, now guys, If you cant professionally argue the fine points dont cop out and claim "the engineers know best".

PS: Fuji Heavy Subaru requires our new subaru 0w20 SYNTHETIC to be changed out a 3500mi and then again at 7500mi due to wear in on a chain timing system with dual VVTi. Another POV.

 

[ARB1977]

I wouldn't be concerned about leaving factory fills in. If something happens thats what warranties are for... hopefully it happens during the warranty period.

 

[Hounds]

Oil Changer, you started this thread, and six pages later, despite what you've read, been referred to and even quoted yourself, your chosen subject line pretty much sums up your perspective. So, change your oil.

ARCOgraphite, what sort of proof are you looking for? You've stated you are unwilling to accept the advice that Honda has been publishing for years, apparently believing instead that Honda's explicit written advice comes from hacks and incompetents. I have no idea where you're gotten that idea. That perspective certainly is not borne out by anything on this website. And I can't remember the last time I saw a marginal Honda engine-oil analysis, much less a bad one, among the hundreds posted here. That's luck, I guess?

It's now my turn to ask for something of substance rather your opinions which, frankly, read like folklore, conjecture, hunches and outright speculation.

 

[Oil Changer]

Originally Posted By: ARB1977
I wouldn't be concerned about leaving factory fills in. If something happens thats what warranties are for... hopefully it happens during the warranty period.


That's the whole thing in a nutshell. Does leaving the FF in for as long as the manual and/or OLM say to good, bad, or indiffernet?

Some say good.

Some say bad.

Some are indifferent.

Facts are, we will never know.

In the end, there will be zero problems with one's choice in when to drain the FF while the vehicle is under warranty. It's what long-term effect does one's decisions now make over the life of the vehicle. That is my issue.

It's the finality of it all. You can not undo what has already been done.

 

[Vikas]

Quote:

the engine median service life being 6sigma past 90-130K miles


I hereby challenge your assertion. Nobody loses engine these days at under 200K with following manufacturer's oil change schedule.

- Vikas

 

[Oil Changer]

Originally Posted By: Hounds
Oil Changer, you started this thread, and six pages later, despite what you've read, been referred to and even quoted yourself, your chosen subject line pretty much sums up your perspective. So, change your oil.

ARCOgraphite, what sort of proof are you looking for? You've stated you are unwilling to accept the advice that Honda has been publishing for years, apparently believing instead that Honda's explicit written advice comes from hacks and incompetents. I have no idea where you're gotten that idea. That perspective certainly is not borne out by anything on this website. And I can't remember the last time I saw a marginal Honda engine-oil analysis, much less a bad one, among the hundreds posted here. That's luck, I guess?

It's now my turn to ask for something of substance rather your opinions which, frankly, read like folklore, conjecture, hunches and outright speculation.


I've always been a man of extremes. That is not always the best way to be. I try and correct myself when possible.

In this case, I will pretty much split the difference. I'll change it earlier than the OLM says but longer than what I am comfortable. In the end, it will be a win-win.

If I went out and changed the oil right now, I would come back in and start a new thread titled, "AWW Man, What Did I Just Do?". Then there would be another six pages of half the people saying I did good and the other half slapping the back of my hand.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Originally Posted By: Vikas
Quote:

the engine median service life being 6sigma past 90-130K miles


I hereby challenge your assertion. Nobody loses engine these days at under 200K with following manufacturer's oil change schedule.

- Vikas
Thats Insider data and pretty standard industry stuff. You dont belong to that club. ALL of my engines expired under 60K recently. The last one after 6 months 4K miles. Maybe not the oils fault here though. The horrendous gasoline qual is the biggest issue these days.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Originally Posted By: Hounds


It's now my turn to ask for something of substance rather your opinions which, frankly, read like folklore, conjecture, hunches and outright speculation.
You argue for the sake of it and bring NOTHING to the table?

Refute the following:

_ Engine bearing clearances can be as tight as 0.7MIL
_Oil Filter are inefficient @ 0.7 - 0.5 mil particulate
_ Oil Filters will bypass washout at HIGH RPM HOT and COLD Start
_ Metal Particulate in FF oil at 100hours is over 1000PPM

_ VVTi and VTEC utilise fine screens on their inlets which can plug

-Turbo Oilers use a fine screen on the banjo fitting which can plug

-5w30 Typically shear out of grade (spec) after 100HOURS wear-in

- 25 $UOA does not shou excessive particulate in a failed engine

___________
Add this up - NOW leave your FF in.

OK Your Move.

 

[Hounds]

ARCOgraphite -- please, focus: Where are your facts to support your thesis that Honda's recommendation regarding the FF is bogus?

 

[ARCOgraphite]

See above. There is NO QUESTION you will get increased wear. Will this reduce median service life to under 200K miles. That data I do not have, but why risk it for NO DOWNSIDE other than the cost of the OC . The High Moly High ZDDP AP will do its job in 3k. Long enough.