I WANT TO CHANGE MY OIL IN MY HONDA CR-V!!

[Oil Changer]

Originally Posted By: dave123
Did they check TSB for oil consumption issue in SOME CR-Vs?


AFAIK, there are no TSB's or recalls on this year, make, and model. I will check with the dealer tomorrow.

I am going to go there to get a couple of oil filters. They sent me a 10% off anything but tires coupon.

Are you positive there is a TSB for this year, make, and model or are you basing this on what you know of older model years?

 

[dave123]

Originally Posted By: Colt
Originally Posted By: dave123
Did they check TSB for oil consumption issue in SOME CR-Vs?

I just had a recall done last week for the fuel injector and vtc timing at cold start that may create deposits on the oil control rings that could lead to increased oil consumption"


MPG same go down many on CR-V forums claim MPG drop after TSB is done up to 2 MPG. I have not had recall done yet.

 

[Colt]

No mileage difference with the recall done.
Although two people on the CRVOC forum said they saw a 2 MPG drop.
The wife drives our CR-V and the MPGs have always been pretty bad for us.

 

[Trav]

Quote:
Small engines are very different machines than what we're discussing today (a very sophisticated motor with an even greater attention to tolerances).

Really?
A V4 with DOHC, forged crank and sodium filled valve stems with stellite seats and capable of 12,000+ RPM's is low tech?
The tolerances of that engine are pretty tight, believe me its every bit if not more mechanically sophisticated.

 

[Oil Changer]

Originally Posted By: qr25de
It's not OCD, it's misinformation or misunderstanding. Leave it in all the way.


I'm not angry at you or your post, please don't take my response in that way as all types of responses is what I am solicitaing, BUT yes, it is OCD. I like changing oil. Look at my screen name. Weird? Yes, but whatever. Everyone needs a hobby. Doing routine maintenance is a great way to understanding how your things work. I enjoy that.

Misinformation or misunderstanding? Doubt it. I'm well educated, old, and I've read this forum [censored] near every day since '06. I agree with the other devil's advocates who say to change the FF early. That is what I have done since my first new vehicle. I'm trying to resist the urge and leave the FF in until the OLM says 15% but I'm finding that (mentally) very hard to do.

 

[Oil Changer]

Originally Posted By: dave123
Originally Posted By: Colt
Originally Posted By: dave123
Did they check TSB for oil consumption issue in SOME CR-Vs?

I just had a recall done last week for the fuel injector and vtc timing at cold start that may create deposits on the oil control rings that could lead to increased oil consumption"


MPG same go down many on CR-V forums claim MPG drop after TSB is done up to 2 MPG. I have not had recall done yet.


This is on '11 CRV's?

Does this engine have direct injection?

 

[Chris Meutsch]

I bought my 2005 CR-V new, and left the FF in it until 5k. It burns zero oil and runs perfectly after 130k.

 

[Pablo]

Change the oil now, change it 5K. I don't think it makes much difference.

My only other real comment is not directly related to your engine but our Honda 3.5L in our Odyssey is much harder on oil than some predicted. I've done a couple 2X (around 13K miles) the OLM (we are at 100K now) and the UOA's were OK, just lots of fuel and not the cleanest running engine with some other folks posted pics.

 

[chubbs1]

JUST CHANGE IT ALREADY!! YOUR ENGINE WON'T KNOW THE DIFFERENCE, except it will have less junk floating around in it!

 

[Oil Changer]

Just went to the Honda Owner's Link website.

No recalls on my VIN specific vehicle. I realize this may not list TSB's. I'll check on that tomorrow.

I also found this while browsing the site:

Why should I wait to change the oil the first time?

Your Honda engine was delivered with an oil that is specially formulated for new engines that have not yet developed their "natural" wear patterns and may contain minute particles from the manufacturing process.


American Honda strongly recommends this special oil be left in the engine long enough for these wear patterns to develop, usually until the first maintenance interval specified in your Owner's Manual, based on your specific driving conditions.

How often should I change my oil after the first service?

Refer to your owner's manual for the recommended service intervals. Separate maintenance schedules are listed for "normal service" and "severe service." Read the description of severe service carefully. Most vehicles will fall under the normal service category. Note that the service intervals are listed by time in addition to distance. Your oil should be changed at whichever interval, time or distance, occurs first.


There is absolutely no benefit in changing your oil more frequently than recommended in your owner's manual. This will only increase your cost of ownership, and create an unnecessary burden upon the environment by increasing the amount of disposed oil.


Do not exceed the recommended maintenance interval. Oil eventually deteriorates and loses its ability to protect your engine, due to heat, friction, and exposure to exhaust components. Engine oil contains special additives to enhance the oil's performance, and these additives are also broken down or consumed with distance and time. Engine damage can occur if the proper maintenance schedule is not followed.

My owners manual says to do what the maintenance minder says to do.

 

[Oil Changer]

Originally Posted By: Pablo
Change the oil now, change it 5K. I don't think it makes much difference.

My only other real comment is not directly related to your engine but our Honda 3.5L in our Odyssey is much harder on oil than some predicted. I've done a couple 2X (around 13K miles) the OLM (we are at 100K now) and the UOA's were OK, just lots of fuel and not the cleanest running engine with some other folks posted pics.


I assume you are using Amsoil? What product/grade?

 

[Oil Changer]

Originally Posted By: chubbs1
JUST CHANGE IT ALREADY!! YOUR ENGINE WON'T KNOW THE DIFFERENCE, except it will have less junk floating around in it!


That's what my head and heart tell me but read what Honda has to say.

As I mentioned, I want to keep this vehicle until rust wins the battle. I want to do what is best.

 

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: Oil Changer
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Change the oil now, change it 5K. I don't think it makes much difference.

My only other real comment is not directly related to your engine but our Honda 3.5L in our Odyssey is much harder on oil than some predicted. I've done a couple 2X (around 13K miles) the OLM (we are at 100K now) and the UOA's were OK, just lots of fuel and not the cleanest running engine with some other folks posted pics.


I assume you are using Amsoil? What product/grade?


I've used XL 5-20 (first change),RD 20, ASM 0W-20, SSO 0W-30, HDD 5W-30, now the NEW XL 5W-20.

 

[Nickdfresh]

Originally Posted By: Trav
...

I think the engineers would like to get the FF out of the engine at 100mi if possible but its not.


Based on what? Have even ever met an "engineer?" Those same engineers also have a specifically high moly content in Honda factory fill oil and realize that engines are far more refined and precise than they used to be...

Though, admittedly, I would go down to the OLM 15% level either and would change at probably around 5000K, merely because I'm OC...

Quote:
The environmentalist and EPA would go bonkers, other state and fed agency's would be jumping up and down about wasting oil (read CA 3K oil change article), on and on.

....


Except I've never heard of any advocacy for extending intervals that originated with these evil environmentalists that wasn't actually based on recommendations of auto manufacturers and the oil companies. You know, actual facts rather than conspiratorial political speculations...

 

[Trav]

Quote:
Based on what? Have even ever met an "engineer?"

Yes in fact i have from Honda Germany and BMW, my cousin is a engine design engineer at the BMW M werk in Munchen.
Quote:
realize that engines are far more refined and precise than they used to be...


Not quite true, in fact due to automated manufacturing techniques in many cases tolerances are sloppier.
When did you ever hear early engine with piston slap of the magnitude some late engines have.
Engine bearings can only function properly within a very small tolerance. Don't confuse electronic engine management with basic engine design which for all intent and purposes remains largely unchanged since the inception of the gasoline engine.
It remains with the exception of rotary engines x number of pistons going up and down in a cylinder connected to a crankshaft.
Quote:
Those same engineers also have a specifically high moly content in Honda factory fill oil

The addition of moly or any other additive does not stop wear particles from new engines finding their way into the oil.
Quote:
Except I've never heard of any advocacy for extending intervals that originated with these evil environmentalists that wasn't actually based on recommendations of auto manufacturers and the oil companies

No political speculation.
From what oil changer posted.
Quote:
and create an unnecessary burden upon the environment by increasing the amount of disposed oil.


There is a lot more to recommended OCI than what is actually best for the engine.
VW started this long OCI way back in the late 60's when they came out with 5000 mile OCI on the VW bugs, they wanted their car to appear less expensive to maintain than the competition.
Today the companies want to appear environmentally concious, would anyone really buy a car that recommended the oil be changed every 3K today?

 

[Coprolite]

Originally Posted By: Trav
Quote:
Fight the urge. Do what the nice Honda engineers want and change it when it hits 15%. In truth, it is probably the lawyers that want it at 15, while the engineers would go for 0.

Let me play Devils advocate.
I bought my first new Honda Motorcycle in 83, the owners manual (Euro) wanted the first OC at 100Km (60mi) again at 500Km and again at 1,000Km.
I think the engineers would like to get the FF out of the engine at 100mi if possible but its not.
The environmentalist and EPA would go bonkers, other state and fed agency's would be jumping up and down about wasting oil (read CA 3K oil change article), on and on.

The automobile manufacturers are appeasing these groups to some (IMHO a large) extent. The manufacturers only care about a positive experience for the first owner and getting the car through the warranty period.
Following the recommendation will probably accomplish that goal but whatever happens after that is irrelevant and they could care less.

I change the oil in any engine i own new at 1hr of use for small engines and 500-1K for cars, bikes are still 100mi because of the shared gearbox.
I don't care what they want or advocate because i know its not in my or my engines best interest.
There you have the opposing point of view.

To play devil's advocate to your point of view:

Why is Honda one of the few manufacturers to stress the importance of leaving the FF in for the full amount of time?

Why is Honda known more as a motor oriented company, focused on the engineering related to it?

If it weren't for the engineers, wouldn't they just go along with all the other manufacturers and not bother with putting their necks on the line?

On a different note, if you like regular OC and reliability, go for a Nissan and follow the severe schedule. No pesky OLM or manufacturer telling you not to change it early.

 

[91344George]

Originally Posted By: Coprolite
Fight the urge. Do what the nice Honda engineers want and change it when it hits 15%. In truth, it is probably the lawyers that want it at 15, while the engineers would go for 0.


Fact is that the engineers that created and designed your engine know more about it than you do. That is not a snobbish comment it is just a fact.

You said you are "well educated"... I would believe that if that is true you would defer to those that are even more well versed than you are (Honda engineers) when deciding what to do about the oil.

Honda break in oil has higher levels of additives that contribute to the longevity of the engine removing it BEFORE the prescribed time/mileage could lead to a shorter engine life.

Any debris from the manufacturing process will be captured by the oil filter, I'm not sure why folks overlook this fact.

 

[JOD]

Originally Posted By: Trav
Quote:
Fight the urge. Do what the nice Honda engineers want and change it when it hits 15%. In truth, it is probably the lawyers that want it at 15, while the engineers would go for 0.

Let me play Devils advocate.
I bought my first new Honda Motorcycle in 83, the owners manual (Euro) wanted the first OC at 100Km (60mi) again at 500Km and again at 1,000Km.
I think the engineers would like to get the FF out of the engine at 100mi if possible but its not.
The environmentalist and EPA would go bonkers, other state and fed agency's would be jumping up and down about wasting oil (read CA 3K oil change article), on and on.

The automobile manufacturers are appeasing these groups to some (IMHO a large) extent. The manufacturers only care about a positive experience for the first owner and getting the car through the warranty period.
Following the recommendation will probably accomplish that goal but whatever happens after that is irrelevant and they could care less.

I change the oil in any engine i own new at 1hr of use for small engines and 500-1K for cars, bikes are still 100mi because of the shared gearbox.
I don't care what they want or advocate because i know its not in my or my engines best interest.
There you have the opposing point of view.

-It's a read herring to pull the "blame the gub'ment" card, since in the U.S. there are no incentives tied to OCI. The mfg could tell you to change the oil every 100 miles and there would be no repercussions.

-if you really believe that those "wacky environmentalists" would be up in arms over the factory fill recommendations, you really are seeing bogeymen everywhere. To wit, the cars most popular with stinky hippies (at least out here) are from the only manufacturer which recommends dumping the FF early. I've seen no outrage over it....

-the recommendations for your 20 year old bike couldn't be less relevant. I lube the chain on my bicycle one a week, but it's not going to affect when I dump the factory fill on a car...

-what is the FF recommendation in countries without the EPA?

All that said, I'd change the FF at 50% of the OLM, just because it would make me feel better, and I'd put on a filter with better efficiency than the OEM. But I also realize that there's no tangible benefit besides making me feel better.

I'm all for playing devils advocate, but none of your assumptions really hold much water.

 

[Trav]

Quote:
Any debris from the manufacturing process will be captured by the oil filter, I'm not sure why folks overlook this fact.




What part do those particles have go through before it gets to the filter?
It wouldn't be one that has extremely close tolerances would it?

 

[JOD]

Originally Posted By: 91344George

Honda break in oil has higher levels of additives that contribute to the longevity of the engine removing it BEFORE the prescribed time/mileage could lead to a shorter engine life.


Serious question: how long do think it would take for these additives to react to the internal engine parts during operation--and what additives would have such a lasting effect that they'd impact the engine's longevity 10's of thousands of miles after the oil is changed?


Originally Posted By: 91344George
Any debris from the manufacturing process will be captured by the oil filter, I'm not sure why folks overlook this fact.


Much of it, sure; but the factory filter isn't that efficient and in looking at UOA's of factory fill, there are always higher wear metals. Does this ultimately impact the life of the engine? I doubt it. That said, there's no question that there are more contaminants in the FF.