I found this regarding the "thin" vs "thick" oil debate
- Thread starter moribundman
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You have a private messg from me
bob
I suspect this could be true too, However, there may be a rainbow.
What if yes there is more wear up front, but because of the tighter engines, and better oils, that through Oil testing one could determine when to move to another higher weight, or perhaps to add VI's or bumping up to a 5-30 or 10-30?
I found an interesting post regarding this subject in the Motorsports section of a Subaru Enthusiasts board:
(**Edit here to take out other forum link not allowed by rules--Dan)
Look for the post by mxm477 to read it in it's entirety. By I will quote a few choice sentences here:
they stated that the bearings are designed for a specific MOFT and MPOP...(minimum oil film thickness)(minimum profile oil pressure).
also if you were to run a thicker oil, you'd increase wear by a square of the viscosity.
They stated that bearings are very reliable except in user abuse situations like not changing oil, causing too high viscsoity or oil thickness.
From reading this, I draw the following conclusion: You want to run the thinnest oil which maintains the MOFT and MPOP. If you take a look at the oil analysis results in the same thread, it backs up those claims, at least in the Subaru EJ20 engine.
bold statements modified by bob
[ September 05, 2003, 06:19 AM: Message edited by: BOBISTHEOILGUY ]
(**Edit here to take out other forum link not allowed by rules--Dan)
Look for the post by mxm477 to read it in it's entirety. By I will quote a few choice sentences here:
they stated that the bearings are designed for a specific MOFT and MPOP...(minimum oil film thickness)(minimum profile oil pressure).
also if you were to run a thicker oil, you'd increase wear by a square of the viscosity.
They stated that bearings are very reliable except in user abuse situations like not changing oil, causing too high viscsoity or oil thickness.
From reading this, I draw the following conclusion: You want to run the thinnest oil which maintains the MOFT and MPOP. If you take a look at the oil analysis results in the same thread, it backs up those claims, at least in the Subaru EJ20 engine.
bold statements modified by bob
[ September 05, 2003, 06:19 AM: Message edited by: BOBISTHEOILGUY ]
This is getting off-topic, but I also fail to see how restricting linking to other forums provides any benefit to bobistheoilguy forum visitors.
In fact, in the forum I had linked to, I very often promote the bobistheoilguy forum, with direct links!
How about answering this in the FAQ or the rules page itself?
Will a moderator please remove the quotes I made in the above post as well? I am no longer able to edit the post and don't want to violate any Copyright laws by posting those quotes without proper attribution to the author (which is now missing).
I've had a number of people PM me for the link which was deleted, am I also violating forum rules by sending them that information? Are they violating forum rules for using that information?
[ September 04, 2003, 05:04 AM: Message edited by: Patman ]
In fact, in the forum I had linked to, I very often promote the bobistheoilguy forum, with direct links!
How about answering this in the FAQ or the rules page itself?
Will a moderator please remove the quotes I made in the above post as well? I am no longer able to edit the post and don't want to violate any Copyright laws by posting those quotes without proper attribution to the author (which is now missing).
I've had a number of people PM me for the link which was deleted, am I also violating forum rules by sending them that information? Are they violating forum rules for using that information?
[ September 04, 2003, 05:04 AM: Message edited by: Patman ]
This is off topic too, regarding the no posting of other forums and links etc. This being the case I decided to never link this site on any of the other boards I go to or even mention it to people except maybe in special cases.
I also have made the decision not to buy from any supporters on this site unless a product isn't available anywhere else. The way I see it, why not buy it from a different forums and vendors message board that doesn't have restrictions to information like this one does. I go to other sites that have paying vendors that don't resort to 'fascist' censoring of info and they seem to survive.
It's not an easy decision to come to since there are so many great people here and such great information they have and share. And from that, I know I benefit greatly. But to freely take the benefit of other boards posting BITOG links but absolutely denying them here has a principle that I won't tolerate.
I also have made the decision not to buy from any supporters on this site unless a product isn't available anywhere else. The way I see it, why not buy it from a different forums and vendors message board that doesn't have restrictions to information like this one does. I go to other sites that have paying vendors that don't resort to 'fascist' censoring of info and they seem to survive.
It's not an easy decision to come to since there are so many great people here and such great information they have and share. And from that, I know I benefit greatly. But to freely take the benefit of other boards posting BITOG links but absolutely denying them here has a principle that I won't tolerate.
Patman
Staff member
I'm confused as to what you want edited out.
I modified the "quotes" to be generalized statements about the quoted comments and is not a direct quote anymore. This way your point is still the same without having to worry about quoting anyone.
This same info is also proven in my oil analysis, showing where thicker oil in the case of my engine is not as good for wear protection as a thinner oil is. Also, it proves out that a better oil filter may not be as good for the engine as well, as the higher the filtration, many times you have higher flow restriction again increasing wear #'s.
http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000211;p=2#000069
If you go back to the beginning of that topic, you'll see we started out trying to prove one thing and as each analysis came back, we found out how flow was a big factor in wear number reduction. This qualifies all engines that way. The main reason why an engine run on the hwy lasts longer as it doesn't have the oil shearing out like you would at stop and go traffic.
[ September 05, 2003, 06:20 AM: Message edited by: BOBISTHEOILGUY ]
This same info is also proven in my oil analysis, showing where thicker oil in the case of my engine is not as good for wear protection as a thinner oil is. Also, it proves out that a better oil filter may not be as good for the engine as well, as the higher the filtration, many times you have higher flow restriction again increasing wear #'s.
http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000211;p=2#000069
If you go back to the beginning of that topic, you'll see we started out trying to prove one thing and as each analysis came back, we found out how flow was a big factor in wear number reduction. This qualifies all engines that way. The main reason why an engine run on the hwy lasts longer as it doesn't have the oil shearing out like you would at stop and go traffic.
[ September 05, 2003, 06:20 AM: Message edited by: BOBISTHEOILGUY ]
F1Crazy:
I'm reading page 124 of the e46 328i manual. Page 124 refers to Engine Oil.
All that is says here is to use appoved LongLife Oil of SAE 0W-X or 5W-X
They also mention that you can use A3 oils only if the 'special' oils aren't available.
For the e38 740il Manual.... (pages 86-87)
Interesting, there is no mention of which SAE grade is prefered, the only requirement is CCMC-G4 & G5.
Seems like BMW is not very informative when it comes to which Oils we can use.
[ September 05, 2003, 09:38 PM: Message edited by: Asmodeus ]
I'm reading page 124 of the e46 328i manual. Page 124 refers to Engine Oil.
All that is says here is to use appoved LongLife Oil of SAE 0W-X or 5W-X
They also mention that you can use A3 oils only if the 'special' oils aren't available.
For the e38 740il Manual.... (pages 86-87)
Interesting, there is no mention of which SAE grade is prefered, the only requirement is CCMC-G4 & G5.
Seems like BMW is not very informative when it comes to which Oils we can use.
[ September 05, 2003, 09:38 PM: Message edited by: Asmodeus ]
I think it's too much of a generalzation to think that "thicker is better". It's not that simple. In Bob's case, his car likes a thinner oil. From all of the used oil analysis I've seen on this board, there is no indication that thicker oils will provide more protection. We have seen some great 20wt results. There are some engines that like heavier oils, such as the LS1 and 4.0L Jeep engine.
I think what Steve Bergin said, and what Mobil's webpage says is correct in that viscosity is a factor, but more importanly are the quality of the components used. Viscosity is just one aspect of an oil. Just my opinion.
[ September 05, 2003, 09:43 PM: Message edited by: buster ]
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