Hyundai Ioniq 5 pulls off 2022 World Car of the Year hat trick -autoblog.com

[Jimmy_Russells]

"Global automakers planning to spend", isn't customers planning to buy. They have to sell them. Not just make them. And that's in just 8 years. They better get moving. Especially around here. You'll find a gold nugget on the sidewalk before you see a EV in these parts.

Well from a guy that keeps a cell phone plugged in 100% of the time, I am not surprised you have this opinion.

Where I live, EVs are everywhere. It is currently, quite literally, approximately 1/8 the cost to drive the same distance with electricity opposed to gasoline because the spread on fuel and electricity price is very high. Once the actual price of EVs comes more in line with ICE vehicles, which will happen in the next 3-5 years because they are absolutely cheaper to manufacture, the adoption rate will skyrocket. It would be financially stupid not to drive one.

But I also understand some people like to drive one-tons because they need to tow a 4000 lb boat once every two years. They can continue doing what they’re doing which is wasting a boatload (pun intended) of money.

 

[billt460]

Well from a guy that keeps a cell phone plugged in 100% of the time, I am not surprised you have this opinion.

Where I live, EVs are everywhere. It is currently, quite literally, approximately 1/8 the cost to drive the same distance with electricity opposed to gasoline because the spread on fuel and electricity price is very high. Once the actual price of EVs comes more in line with ICE vehicles, which will happen in the next 3-5 years because they are absolutely cheaper to manufacture, the adoption rate will skyrocket. It would be financially stupid not to drive one.

But I also understand some people like to drive one-tons because they need to tow a 4000 lb boat once every two years. They can continue doing what they’re doing which is wasting a boatload (pun intended) of money.

All of that is meaningless if you have no use for them. These things don't sell in rural areas where people travel long distances. Because they're not practical for that purpose. They're urban grocery getters. Too much has to happen for these things to be ready for prime time, or as an only vehicle. And that is regardless of their owners phone charging habits. Or how much they have their egos invested in their vehicles.

 

[Jimmy_Russells]

All of that is meaningless if you have no use for them. These things don't sell in rural areas where people travel long distances. Because they're not practical for that purpose. They're urban grocery getters. Too much has to happen for these things to be ready for prime time, or as an only vehicle. And that is regardless of their owners phone charging habits.

The point about needing to drive 300+ miles is basically the same as driving the one-ton to tow rarely. People don’t do that often. Install a level 2 charger at your home (about $1000) and you can completely charge an EV overnight. Of course there will be outliers but the vast majority could use an EV with no concerns. You can rent a vehicle for road trips or whatever which a lot of people do anyway to save wear and tear on their own vehicles.

 

[billt460]

The point about needing to drive 300+ miles is basically the same as driving the one-ton to tow rarely. People don’t do that often. Install a level 2 charger at your home (about $1000) and you can completely charge an EV overnight. Of course there will be outliers but the vast majority could use an EV with no concerns. You can rent a vehicle for road trips or whatever which a lot of people do anyway to save wear and tear on their own vehicles.

Just what I want to do. Buy an overpriced, expensive EV, then have to turn right around and rent a vehicle to be able to do what I want or need. That's ridiculous.

People who live around here have boats, RV's, dirt bikes, ATV's, and sand rails. They're towing every weekend. Usually some pretty fair distances across the desert. An EV is completely worthless to them. Which is precisely why you don't see them.

Give them one that is cost competitive, (not a $100K+ Rivian), with the same range and towing capacity as their F-350, 1 ton turbo diesels, and they'll spring for it. But hell is going to freeze over before you ever see that.

Again, these things have a very limited use for soccer moms or people who live in the city, or suburbs of large urban sprawl. Even then, a high mileage compact will suit them every bit as good, or even better than ANY EV will.

Paying an extra $30K to $40K for an EV is NEVER going to be made up in fuel costs. I don't care how high gas prices go.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Just what I want to do. Buy an overpriced, expensive EV, then have to turn right around and rent a vehicle to be able to do what I want or need. That's ridiculous.

People who live around here have boats, RV's, dirt bikes, ATV's, and sand rails. They're towing every weekend. Usually some pretty fair distances across the desert. An EV is completely worthless to them. Which is precisely why you don't see them.

Give them one that is cost competitive, (not a $100K+ Rivian), with the same range and towing capacity as their F-350, 1 ton turbo diesels, and they'll spring for it. But hell is going to freeze over before you ever see that.

Again, these things have a very limited use for soccer moms or people who live in the city, or suburbs of large urban sprawl. Even then, a high mileage compact will suit them every bit as good, or even better than ANY EV will.

Paying an extra $30K to $40K for an EV is NEVER going to be made up in fuel costs. I don't care how high gas prices go.

As our friendly BITOG group Tesla fan boy (which is BS), I have said a million times EVs are not for everyone. If I only had one car, it would probably be my GS350. Or TSX. Or a dang Accord.
Of course, the old Tundra doesn't count; it is not a vehicle, it is a tool. My cowboy friends tell me, "Ya ain't sh-- if ya ain't got a truck." And an SUV is not a truck.
That's just my 2 cents...

 

[Jimmy_Russells]

Just what I want to do. Buy an overpriced, expensive EV, then have to turn right around and rent a vehicle to be able to do what I want or need. That's ridiculous.

People who live around here have boats, RV's, dirt bikes, ATV's, and sand rails. They're towing every weekend. Usually some pretty fair distances across the desert. An EV is completely worthless to them. Which is precisely why you don't see them.

Give them one that is cost competitive, (not a $100K+ Rivian), with the same range and towing capacity as their F-350, 1 ton turbo diesels, and they'll spring for it. But hell is going to freeze over before you ever see that.

Again, these things have a very limited use for soccer moms or people who live in the city, or suburbs of large urban sprawl. Even then, a high mileage compact will suit them every bit as good, or even better than ANY EV will.

Paying an extra $30K to $40K for an EV is NEVER going to be made up in fuel costs. I don't care how high gas prices go.

It’s not 30-40k. Maybe half that, and shrinking.

Around here, if someone spends $500 a month in fuel, immediately that drops to $65 a month in electricity. That easily pays for half the price difference or more over the course of say, five years. A lot of these things are leases anyway in which case the fuel savings can straight up pay for the vehicle in certain areas and use cases.

There are always outliers and people that need trucks, hence why they are still made. But there are a lot, A LOT of people that drive them and use 10% of their capability.

 

[UncleDave]

They are far too expensive for what they currently offer. A $100K electric truck that can only tow 70 to 100 miles is nothing but a high priced Jay Leno toy. That's not cynicism, but fact. You may have an argument when they can compete. But they've got a long way to go.

If you tow.

if you do not tow, and use your truck as a big car and throw a couch or chair one the bed they are fine.

 

[E365]

No matter how much complaining people do, here’s the bottom line on why ICE will never survive in the long run for most consumer applications.

VW Tiguan (ICE): 18 hours labor to make.
Tesla Model Y: 10 hours labor to make.

Employing 30-45% more factory workers and a significant percent more engineers (because ICE takes WAY more engineering time) will never be the way forward for car manufacturers.

https://www.reuters.com/business/au...-trinity-aims-catch-up-with-tesla-2022-03-31/

 

[billt460]

No matter how much complaining people do, here’s the bottom line on why ICE will never survive in the long run for most consumer applications.

VW Tiguan (ICE): 18 hours labor to make.
Tesla Model Y: 10 hours labor to make.

Employing 30-45% more factory workers and a significant percent more engineers (because ICE takes WAY more engineering time) will never be the way forward for car manufacturers.

https://www.reuters.com/business/au...-trinity-aims-catch-up-with-tesla-2022-03-31/

And yet they, (EV's), cost significantly more. When they should be significantly less. At least according to your numbers. So.... When is this magnificent price reduction coming?

 

[E365]

And yet they, (EV's), cost significantly more. When they should be significantly less. At least according to your numbers. So.... When is this magnificent price reduction coming?

My numbers? I literally posted a link to the info, with quotes straight from VW themselves.

And where does a “magnificent price reduction” come into play here? The car companies aren’t charities. Reducing labor means increased profits for them. That’s their goal.

 

[billt460]

My numbers? I literally posted a link to the info, with quotes straight from VW themselves.

And where does a “magnificent price reduction” come into play here? The car companies aren’t charities. Reducing labor means increased profits for them. That’s their goal.

First they need customers. Right now they're lucky if they have 2 percent of the market. They got a long way to go. A very long way.

 

[JeffKeryk]

And yet they, (EV's), cost significantly more. When they should be significantly less. At least according to your numbers. So.... When is this magnificent price reduction coming?

Tesla's margins are 29% and getting better due to economies of scale. That is Porsche numbers... VW is maybe 7%.
This is due to less expensive drivetrains but mainly Tesla's advanced manufacturing process.

You are right, EVs cost significantly more; they are in their infancy as mass produced cars.
If and when they make the $25K "Model 2", or whatever they call it, watch out world.
The Big Boys are scared. They better be.

 

[Spyderman24_7]

The problem is, the same people who are pushing all of these mandates for electric vehicles, all hate the nuclear and fossil fuel industry it's going to take to charge all of these EV batteries. The wind doesn't blow all the time, and the Sun doesn't shine all the time.

And the way the water level is drastically dropping in many areas, it's only a matter of time before hydro electric is going to become severely limited.

Electricity has to be used as it's made. Unlike petroleum and / or nuclear fuel that can be made, then stored until needed. Batteries won't cut it. If all the batteries in the entire world were charged to 100% capacity, they would supply the world for less than 10 minutes.

Make 10 times as many batteries, and it will only last for an hour and a half. With a little time to go to the bathroom. That's it.

Until the same people who are pushing EV's start coming to their senses about understanding the need for additional power plants, and start BUILDING THEM, this problem is only to to GROW..... Not SHRINK like it needs to, for EV's to become as widespread as they want them.

As I said, a government cannot legislate technology. All they manage to do is hinder and tax it.

Nicely stated and totally agree... many people I know tend to look at the 'wow for now' and rarely the long term cause/effect.

 

[Spyderman24_7]

I fully expect ICE (private) vehicles to be taxed off the road as EVs become more affordable and the charging infrastructure put in place.

I'd say that would lead to a very serious uprising against government too! ICE will never fade that much (if any) and I still see cars that are upwards of 40+ yrs old still cranking along, burning more oil than gas yet they still exist without question.

 

[Spyderman24_7]

Our EV spends zero time (and miles) going to gas stations. The other cars, well they are always on the lookout for cheal gas. Gotta drive 10 miles each way to get Costco gas... What a waste of time, money and fuel! ICE cars can be too much hassle.

For those that don't think logically I'd agree. Personally I always stop to refuel on my route so no time/fuel is wasted. Of course there will always be those that nitpick and drive 15-20 miles to save .02 per gallon, lmao.

 

[Spyderman24_7]

That may be true, but the cost to produce batteries is now going up due to the cost of raw materials and production shortages.

We've come to expect prices of technological things to come down over time. And for a time, batteries have done so. When a capable battery pack costs a manufacturer $20K and another $5K to assemble into a working package with a cooling management and built in charger, the car won't be $25K, it will be $60K.

By now, it's become clear just how big a battery pack needs to be. The magic number is 80KWh for a modest range vehicle and 135KWh for a modest range pickup truck. 100/180KWh for "so-called" extended range vehicles, which can only go a real-world 250-300 miles at speed on the highway.

Short range EV's are available in other countries and have been so for quite some time now. There is a very good reason they don't sell here.

Take a careful look at the retail price of 18650 batteries now! $10 each for the best Samsung cells!!!!!!! AND $5 each for lower capacity cells.

Now consider the 7920 individual cells in a Plaid's battery pack.

Doubt many people in America would be caught dead driving something like that... **** *** was/is Honda thinking?!?

 

[billt460]

That may be true, but the cost to produce batteries is now going up due to the cost of raw materials and production shortages.

We've come to expect prices of technological things to come down over time. And for a time, batteries have done so. When a capable battery pack costs a manufacturer $20K and another $5K to assemble into a working package with a cooling management and built in charger, the car won't be $25K, it will be $60K.

By now, it's become clear just how big a battery pack needs to be. The magic number is 80KWh for a modest range vehicle and 135KWh for a modest range pickup truck. 100/180KWh for "so-called" extended range vehicles, which can only go a real-world 250-300 miles at speed on the highway.

Short range EV's are available in other countries and have been so for quite some time now. There is a very good reason they don't sell here.

Take a careful look at the retail price of 18650 batteries now! $10 each for the best Samsung cells!!!!!!! AND $5 each for lower capacity cells.

Now consider the 7920 individual cells in a Plaid's battery pack.

That is the ugliest thing I've seen on the road yet since that stupid Nissan "Cube", with the wrap around rear window.... Which looked like they took the plans from a Kindergarten stick figure drawing "class".

 

[JeffKeryk]

For those that don't think logically I'd agree. Personally I always stop to refuel on my route so no time/fuel is wasted. Of course there will always be those that nitpick and drive 15-20 miles to save .02 per gallon, lmao.

Costco is generally 30 cents less per gallon.

 

[IcarusLSC]

OR-the 90% fewer moving parts than an ICE machine. This Mercedes just went over 600 miles on a SINGLE CHARGE. Over the "bladder range" of many.
https://www.caranddriver.com/featur...1-mile-road-trip/?utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD

The electric cars are coming BITOGers.....

90% fewer moving parts and only 90%+ the price!

 

[billt460]

90% fewer moving parts and only 90%+ the price!

90% fewer moving parts, and yet by far the most unreliable.