How can different oils make a bike shift bad?

[Chris142]

01 Kawasaki Mojave 250.

I have been trying different oils in my ATV. Right now I'm running Valvoline Premium Blue 15w-40.

The thing shifts terrible! Very "Notchy".

The Havoline 20w-50 I drained out shifted fine but I was thinking that it was too thick.

Thinking of trying Rotella. So far the car oils did not make the clutch slip.

But how can the oil make it shift bad? Thats just odd.

 

[drive it forever]

I know its strange how differing oils feel. I've tried many different oils in my bikes. Of all the oils I've used, Yamahas Yamalube 20w40, yes 20w40, has been the best oil I've ever used in terms of shift feel.

 

[Hirev]

quote:

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Originally posted by drive it forever:
I know its strange how differing oils feel. I've tried many different oils in my bikes. Of all the oils I've used, Yamahas Yamalube 20w40, yes 20w40, has been the best oil I've ever used in terms of shift feel.

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Same here.... used Yamalube 20w 40 for many years. Every time I try something different it never shifts as good as 20w 40 does.

 

[greasemonkey]

I have been using Rotella T 15w40 for the past 6k in a V* 1100 and I think it shifts as good or better than Yamalube 20w40

 

[BOBISTHEOILGUY]

you guys may not realize this but a mc oil is different than car oils. they have higher levels of barrier addiditives than cars. they car oils are limited to 1000ppm of zinc because of the catylitic converter. mc's dont have one. they have needle bearings and will go bad if running a car oil. It all depends on the bike. I know harleys are bad on this problem.

15w40 have higher levels of zinc so it doesn't have that problem. It is for diesels and are exemt from the zinc rule for cars.

if it is rated sx what ever, it is for the cars. some of the car brand do have moly. that is a barrier additive and will also work in mc's. you have to know what it has in it. that is why amsoil, for the most part are not api certified(except for a couple of oils). they have high levels of zinc and will not pass the api rating. schaeffers will pass the api rating and do not have higher levels of zinc but do have moly so both are able to run in mc's. No, moly will not make a clutch slip. Alot of people think it will but it doesn't. I know alot of people who run moly and have no problem, including myself and harley I have. I run it in my trans and oil both.

hope that helps.
bob

 

[seldont]

Bob, Thans for chiming in. Also thanks to Greasemonkey as I just bought a new Yamaha V-Star 1100 and was thinking of rinning Rotella T in it after I get past the 600 mile check up mark. What kind of filters do you run and/or have you installed a filter relocation kit yet. I was thinking of installing one one mine so I would not have to drop the exhaust every oil change. Thanks again, I have been waiting to see a thread on the V-Stars.

 

[Uneasy Rider]

You may want to give some Redline a try. Nice smooth shifting on my R1. Nice amounts of moly too.

 

[greasemonkey]

Seldont - I run STP from AZ it is cheaper price and comes with the o-rings. I think champion may make it for yamaha because they look identical. I passed on the relo because I like an cleaner look and it's really not that hard to change the filter once you get it down pat.

 

[wileyE]

quote:

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How can different oils make a bike shift bad

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Even though most MC trans are of the same design (constantmesh) they don't all like the same amount of friction and shift pressure at the dogs do engage them. Things like engine power, vehicle load, primary reduction, etc. Vibration can suprising can make a big difference on how the dogs engage, harley had a little taste of this when they were developing the new couterbalanced motor. On some of the race bikes I get involved with it's very common to have a oil that shifts good at one speed/load, but doesn't under full load, or vice versa. Or have a rider complain on one lube yet different rider with no problems. Oil is ez to swap around and find one that works best for the bike or toe. My point being don't be afraid stay with whats working or experiment. And don't be disappointed if someone else recomendation doesn't fit your bike/toe needs.

 

[Chris142]

Thanks for the replys. I quit using MC oils because this ATV model is known to eat intake cams.

Mine and my neighbors daughters have both ate their cams. Guess who gets to fix em when they do?

The cams are $150 each and the cam followers are $50 each.

I switched to "car" oils the last time I put a cam in mine since the MC oils were not cutting it.

So far so good! I now have about 60 hours on mine and when I checked the cam around 50 hours it was doing great! No wear yet.

So far the car oils seem to be working except that the thing is hard to shift both with or w/o using the clutch.

This Valvoline is by far the worst, 2nd place going to Mobil-1 15w50.

I bought a gallon jug of Rotella and it will go in next.

 

[wileyE]

Does the head have a vent tube near the intake cam side? The vacume/pressure can huff and puff dust in.

Another wag (wild as# guess),ohc heads are usually cast too pool up some oil so the cams can take a dip. If the motor is tilted (too) forward in the conversion to atv fitment, it may not allow this to happen on the high,intake side. On a single cyl the cam is usually so short that the cam chain usally slings enough oil they don't worry about it.

 

[Chris142]

quote:

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Originally posted by wileyE:


Another wag (wild as# guess),ohc heads are usually cast too pool up some oil so the cams can take a dip. If the motor is tilted (too) forward in the conversion to atv fitment, it may not allow this to happen on the high,intake side.

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Bingo!

 

[DakJack]

I have also used the Yamalube 20W-40 in my motorcycles for a long time. It's hard to describe but even though the shifting is harder (takes a tiny little bit more effort) it is smoother than with other oils. It's a feel thing but I definately noticed it.

 

[seldont]

Greasemonkey, thanks for coming back to me. Been working doubles this week so took a while to read but,,,,,, Thanks

 

[DNS]

quote:

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Originally posted by BOBISTHEOILGUY:
you guys may not realize this but a mc oil is different than car oils. they have higher levels of barrier addiditives than cars. they car oils are limited to 1000ppm of zinc because of the catylitic converter. mc's dont have one. they have needle bearings and will go bad if running a car oil.
bob

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Most motorcycle engines (Japanesse in particular) do not use needle bearings. However, many of the older motorcycle engines and current Harleys still use needle bearings. Also the XW40 and XW50 car oils do not have the 1000ppm zinc limitation.

 

[BOBISTHEOILGUY]

dns: notice that thoe oils you commented on are c rated. they are rated for desiel oil which do not have catilatic coverters there fore do not have the 1000ppm limitations like the s rated oils do.

 

[blano]

I think viscosity has a huge effect on clutch feel.

 

[Jaybird]

Before I would blame oil for a notchy clutch shift, I would inspect the clutch basket for any sort of markings. Quite possibly the clutch is the culprit to begine with.

On overhead cams,
It is one fo the few places a person will find a plain bearing on a bike. It is absolutely essential that lifters be adjusted/shimmed with absolute precision, and that the plain bearings be torqued to precisely the recommended torque lbs.

 

[rocksalt]

I have had similar results with different oils. Nothing wrong with clutches. Rotella-T 15-40 seems to work well. The problem is.. why is it so cheap? 12.00 at wallyworld for a gallon. I have heard mention it's fake synthetic. Why is that?

Heavy weight oil will also make shifting harder.

 

[Hans]

I think blano is right, viscosity has a lot to do with it. I can tell by the way my bike shifts that it is getting close to an oil change. I think by the time I get close to 3000 miles on my oil it has sheard to a lighter weight and it doesn't shift as nice and as soon as I put in fresh oil it is smooth again. I noticed when I use Rotella T 5W-40 or Mobil 1 T&SUV 5W-40 it doesn't shift as smooth as when I use Mobil 1 15W-50 so it would seem to me it is a question of viscosity more than anything else, at least in my 2003 Mean Streak.