Honda's take on the 3000 mile oil change

[vad]

This is what I'm saying.
Toyota extends its sludger oil change recommendations to the non-sludgers since it is not supposed to differentiate between the sludgers and non-sludgers because the problem officially doesn't exist.

quote:

---

Toyota is still pretty conservative with the North American OCI recommendations.

---

The effects of the sludge fallout..

 

[akuska]

Hondas are so reliable that my guess is that the dealer is trying to get whatever work he can, even if that means telling customers to ignore the OLM that Honda has installed. Since Honda hasn't had sludge issues, I'd just follow the OLM.

As others have mentioned, some manufacturers such as Toyota who have had sludge issues have gotten conservative on OCIs. Interestingly, VW/Audi seemingly have gotten over any reluctance they may have had regarding sludge and now recommend 10k OCIs across the board, the same as they do in Europe for cars without OLMs. Supposedly in the new generation (2005.5+ Jettas, 2006+ Passats) quality was a top concern given the disastrous quality ratings of the last generation. OTOH, they have firmly established the requirement to follow the VW 502 00 specs over here now, which means that they are trying to impose the ACEA/synth culture. So far, sales are up this year. We'll see if $70 oil changes affects that.

 

[MatchboxCar]

quote:

---

An optimist is someone who looks at a glass as half full.
A pesimist looks at it as half empty
An engineer looks at the glass as twice as big as necesary to hold the liquid.

---

...or as a 100% safety margin for those who do not check their glass' level.

 

[cousincletus]

I think 7K for the break-in oil is way too long. Every mfg wants to claim they have a car that requires the least maintenance.

 

[ekpolk]

quote:

---

Originally posted by cousincletus:
I think 7K for the break-in oil is way too long. Every mfg wants to claim they have a car that requires the least maintenance.

---

CC:

For years, my unshakable belief was pretty much what you posted -- this would be too long. For my cars, it still is. On the other hand, however, I have seen some evidence here on BITOG that has somewhat eroded the foundation of my beliefs on this subject. In particular there was the UOA on the Porsche Cayenne that had gone ~20k miles on its factory fill M1 0w-40. Other than the obvious break-in debris, the results were pretty good. Some of these results have made me wonder how harmful, if at all, the break-in debris is in a modern engine.

By the way CC, if I ever decide that I need to hide from you, I'm headed straight for the nearest Honda showroom!

 

[Schmoe]

Well............I said I'd wait until the OLM showed around 15% on my 06 before I'd change it out the first time. Couldn't wait. Car had 5K on the odometer and OLM showing 50%. Had to change it...after all I'd never changed it before and I was drooling at the mouth. Factory oil was black of course, but nothing unusual. Probably would have been OK for a couple of thousand more miles but reading some of the comments got me thinking and according to my wife, that's what gets me into trouble....thinking. I will say this, there is a big change from a 02 V6 to a 06 V6. Engine took exactly 5 quarts with filter. Speaking of filter, it's a lot smaller than the 02's, LOT SMALLER.

 

[akuska]

Originally posted by cousincletus:
"I think 7K for the break-in oil is way too long. Every mfg wants to claim they have a car that requires the least maintenance."

I don't know about Honda, but VW says 5K for the first two oil changes and then 10k after that. Honda puts in an OLM, so my guess is that the manual will say go with that.

 

[nthach]

my parent's second van, a 2005 Toyota Sienna also has a OLM, but Toyota says it goes off every 5K. Since the Sienna just uses a freshened over and bored out 1MZ-FE and calls it a 3MZ-Fe, I still do oil changes on that thing before 4K. I DO NOT trust Toyota's 5K on this engine, or for any Toyota as a matter of fact. I try to keep the oil on my 1UZ in for 4K tops.

 

[ekpolk]

quote:

---

Originally posted by nthach:
my parent's second van, a 2005 Toyota Sienna also has a OLM, but Toyota says it goes off every 5K. Since the Sienna just uses a freshened over and bored out 1MZ-FE and calls it a 3MZ-Fe, I still do oil changes on that thing before 4K. I DO NOT trust Toyota's 5K on this engine, or for any Toyota as a matter of fact. I try to keep the oil on my 1UZ in for 4K tops.

---

Respectfully, the evidence, irrespective of what Toyota says, strongly suggests that your concerns are misplaced. 1MZs after '02 were not sludge prone as the mid-series engines were. The 3MZ has demonstrated no sludge issues. And there's no evidence at all that the xUZ series V-8s ever had any problem with design-related sludge. In fact, quite the opposite is true; these V-8 engines have proven themselves perhaps the easiest on oil of any we've seen here. Here are links to a couple of my 2UZ UOAs: 13 months, 10k miles on GC, and 6 mos, 4.2k miles on M1 5w-30. And these are only mine. There are literally a couple dozen xUZ UOA posted here that show similar durability. Dumping oil on this, or similar engines, is just not necessary. Likewise, the various OLMs, when their performance is compared to UOA, have shown themselves to be very conservatively calibrated (i.e. on the side of safety).

 

[Ray H]

quote:

---

Originally posted by the_oil_dealer:
I'd personally dump the factory oil asap. A new engine needs to be flushed.

---

You may be overstating the actual danger posed by factory leftovers and break-in contaminants. But, your overall recommended point is valid. Previously posted early UOAs show a lot of junk, some of which is too small to be trapped by the oil filter, that is best elliminated early on. Anyone who actually buys into the notion that all current engines are good to go redline from day one is delusional. Apparently Toyota, in addition to Hyundai, believes in an extended break-in, too. The owner's manuals for the 2007 Camry recommends a 1,000 miles of moderate driving.

 

[vad]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ray H:
Anyone who actually buys into the notion that all current engines are good to go redline from day one is delusional.

---

Then call me delusional.
I think you're not aware of the process and conditions a new engine sees during the "marriage" ceremony (connection of the drivetrain and chassis to the body).
The engines are being warmed up and then subjected to a functional test including full-throttle testing for power output, emissions and other parameters.
It gets "worse".
During the delivery process the cars then being moved multiple times between the holding lots before they arrive on the dealer's lot.
In most cases they're being run cold and at full throttle.

 

[OriginHacker21]

Vad is right... Have a friend that works at a Mercedes Benz dealership. He says they like to rev those nice cars when they arrive from shipping. They are also required to take them on a few mile "test" drive. You can imagine what goes on then...

I'm sure the factory does similar things...