Honda Odyssey brake caliper slide boots

[gasman556]

I've got a '14 odyssey that eats brakes. This most recent rotor/pad change I had a bear of a time getting the lower slide pin out of the caliper bracket. I ended up being successful with heat/hammering the slide pin out. Apparently there was a lot of rust inside it. I used a brass wire brush with similar diameter as the hole and liberal amounts of brake clean in the hole. Fluid eventually came out clear, but I am worried this issue will come back despite my heavy handed grease application and new boot use. The caliper bracket side of the dust boot didn't really seat well and I could NOT use the old one given creative process of removal.

2 questions:
1 - Any tips to get more life out of this caliper bracket for the next time I have to replace the hardware given the rust?
2 - Any good resources to show how to reliably seat/seal the caliper pin boots? I usually don't have problems, but definitely did yesterday.

TIA

 

[GSCJR]

1. Bi-annual inspections which includes disassembly, cleaning and lubing.
2. Twist and turn the pin until it burps and seats the boot. Less is more when it comes pin lubricant, since you're doing it more often.

 

[gasman556]

1. Bi-annual inspections which includes disassembly, cleaning and lubing.
2. Twist and turn the pin until it burps and seats the boot. Less is more when it comes pin lubricant, since you're doing it more often.

I was REALLY hoping to avoid this solution to #1. But given you're in a high salt application area, I think you are speaking from experience.

I tried to avoid a lot of lube this time with the pins, but can't help to think that made the rust worse? I could be hypercritical here as I can't prove this point given I usually don't go heavy handed with grease.

Thank you.

 

[Nukeman7]

I've got a '14 odyssey that eats brakes. This most recent rotor/pad change I had a bear of a time getting the lower slide pin out of the caliper bracket. I ended up being successful with heat/hammering the slide pin out. Apparently there was a lot of rust inside it. I used a brass wire brush with similar diameter as the hole and liberal amounts of brake clean in the hole. Fluid eventually came out clear, but I am worried this issue will come back despite my heavy handed grease application and new boot use. The caliper bracket side of the dust boot didn't really seat well and I could NOT use the old one given creative process of removal.

2 questions:
1 - Any tips to get more life out of this caliper bracket for the next time I have to replace the hardware given the rust?
2 - Any good resources to show how to reliably seat/seal the caliper pin boots? I usually don't have problems, but definitely did yesterday.

TIA

The problem you encountered is well know in the Honda community. It results from using an incompatible grease on the slide pin which causes the rubber collar on the pin (only found on the lower slide pin) to swell up significantly. To avoid recurrence, buy new rubber grommet collars and only use silicone paste to lubricate the slide pins. Any petroleum based grease (including ones labelled for brake applications) will cause the rubber to swell up again. Many use Sil-Glyde (silicone in mineral oil), but a 100% silicone grease is better.

 

[gasman556]

The problem you encountered is well know in the Honda community. It results from using an incompatible grease on the slide pin which causes the rubber collar on the pin (only found on the lower slide pin) to swell up significantly. To avoid recurrence, buy new rubber grommet collars and only use silicone paste to lubricate the slide pins. Any petroleum based grease (including ones labelled for brake applications) will cause the rubber to swell up again. Many use Sil-Glyde (silicone in mineral oil), but a 100% silicone grease is better.

Thanks! I used something that was green, labeled for brake slide pins, etc but can't remember the name off hand. I will get the stuff you linked above for next time. It was weird that it only happened to the one side though. Thanks again.

 

[rijndael]

FWIW: Some think that the purple colored brake grease, 24125 Permatex, makes the rubber swell.

 

[GSCJR]

I was REALLY hoping to avoid this solution to #1. But given you're in a high salt application area, I think you are speaking from experience.

Correct.

I tried to avoid a lot of lube this time with the pins, but can't help to think that made the rust worse? I could be hypercritical here as I can't prove this point given I usually don't go heavy handed with grease.

That's good, since you are now unwillingly going to check your work in six months to verify. As @Nukeman7 pointed out, make sure you are using the correct grease, I also prefer Sil-Glyde.

 

[Nukeman7]

FWIW: Some think that the purple colored brake grease, 24125 Permatex, makes the rubber swell.

The original version of purple Permatex Ceramic Extreme (which I own) does indeed cause the rubber to swell.

It was reformulated ~8 years ago and repackaged as Permatex Ceramic (see below). Allegedly, it no longer causes rubber to swell. However, I can't confirm that other than Permatex claims it is Ethanediol based and contains no silicone or petroleum.

I use 100% silicone grease exclusively now without any issues.

 

[JeffKeryk]

I just put a new set of pin boots on a '98 Accord. The kit was like $5 on Amazon and came with 2 end collars. It needed them as the lower pin was tough to get out! And there's no rust around here...

Sil-Glide is your friend. Clean out the bores. Don't use too much lube and none on the end. I worked the pins in their bore before putting the new boots on.
I do periodic brake component clean-and-lube on my cars.

 

[GSCJR]

The original version of purple Permatex Ceramic Extreme (which I own) does indeed cause the rubber to swell.

View attachment 299319

It was reformulated ~8 years ago and repackaged as Permatex Ceramic (see below). Allegedly, it no longer causes rubber to swell. However, I can't confirm that other than Permatex claims it is Ethanediol based and contains no silicone or petroleum.
View attachment 299322
I use 100% silicone grease exclusively now without any issues.

+1

My colleague also experienced swelled boots with this version of Permatex, while I kept using my "ancient technology" Sil-Glyde.

 

[Sequoiasoon]

The Sil-Glyde never really worked well for me. Always thinned out to much. The other slide pin greases definitely swelled the rubber on my Toyota so haven't used it since.

This Silicone Paste was linked from @Trav on other discussions. Mission Automotive was always recommended but not available. That and 3M or AC Delco.

Get new boots, clean it out well again, do the silicone and insert/spin/remove a couple times then do the boots. Any other rubber parts there like the pin sleeve thing should be changed also. I don't know on Odyssey but the Toyota's had a small plug on outside that often disappeared from too much grease etc. That then let water right in on the one pin.

 

[rijndael]

The original version of purple Permatex Ceramic Extreme (which I own) does indeed cause the rubber to swell.

Figures. That's the one I have, but I stopped using it on rubber parts a while back. I use 3M Silicone Paste 08946 for that.

 

[gasman556]

Gents, thanks for the info. Looks like I’ve got my work cut out for me. I’ve got the permatex and crc versions below. I used the permatex yesterday fwiw. Looks like I need to buy new grease?

 

[rollins.]

Some of these "silicone" greases contain up to 5% highly refined mineral oils, I don't know whether this content would lead to some seal swell. Like :
https://www.crcindustries.com/media/msdsen/msds_en-1003796.pdf
Fuchs CHEMPLEX 839 silicone grease and its commercial offerings (AcDelco,Raybestos DBL-2T ) do not.

This is the thread to ask- do you know of a commercially available PAG caliper grease like TRW PFG110 /Klueber Syntheso GLK 1 ... or MOLYKOTE G-3407 in humane packaging?

Permatex Green says "synthetic"...well,fine...but is it glycol?
https://www.permatex.com/products/l...atex-ultra-disc-brake-caliper-lubricant-8-oz/

Silicone ones seem to be the best bet after all (if PAG not available to the masses).

 

[Nukeman7]

Gents, thanks for the info. Looks like I’ve got my work cut out for me. I’ve got the permatex and crc versions below. I used the permatex yesterday fwiw. Looks like I need to buy new grease?

I'm pretty certain your green Permatex Synthetic Ultra tube is the old formulation containing petroleum grease. The newer, reformulated green Permatex Synthetic (not Ultra) version (see photo below) is Ethanediol based and allegedly rubber safe.

Your CRC Silaramic brake lube is silicone grease fortified with ceramic solids and is advertised as being safe for Nitrile and EPDM rubber components. I suggest removing and cleaning the brake parts with brake cleaner and reinstall using the CRC Silaramic lube.

 

[slacktide_bitog]

You'll need new calipers next time, sorry

 

[gasman556]

Some of these "silicone" greases contain up to 5% highly refined mineral oils, I don't know whether this content would lead to some seal swell. Like :
https://www.crcindustries.com/media/msdsen/msds_en-1003796.pdf
Fuchs CHEMPLEX 839 silicone grease and its commercial offerings (AcDelco,Raybestos DBL-2T ) do not.

This is the thread to ask- do you know of a commercially available PAG caliper grease like TRW PFG110 /Klueber Syntheso GLK 1 ... or MOLYKOTE G-3407 in humane packaging?

Permatex Green says "synthetic"...well,fine...but is it glycol?
https://www.permatex.com/products/l...atex-ultra-disc-brake-caliper-lubricant-8-oz/

Silicone ones seem to be the best bet after all (if PAG not available to the masses).

I can’t see any of the molykote in anything less than 18kg pail. I’d be a fan of it as I like a lot of the DuPont grease/lubes I’ve used, but not at 40# of it.

I'm pretty certain your green Permatex Synthetic Ultra tube is the old formulation containing petroleum grease. The newer, reformulated green Permatex Synthetic (not Ultra) version (see photo below) is Ethanediol based and allegedly rubber safe.
View attachment 299367
Your CRC Silaramic brake lube is silicone grease fortified with ceramic solids and is advertised as being safe for Nitrile and EPDM rubber components. I suggest removing and cleaning the brake parts with brake cleaner and reinstall using the CRC Silaramic lube.

Great. Is there a shelf life on this stuff? The permatex is newer than the crc. I think the crc is around 7-8 yrs old.

Thanks again.

 

[Nukeman7]

...Great. Is there a shelf life on this stuff? The permatex is newer than the crc. I think the crc is around 7-8 yrs old.

Thanks again.

No specific shelf life on brake grease. If it comes out of the tube and not dried up/hard or liquified, it is OK to use.

 

[gasman556]

No specific shelf life on brake grease. If it comes out of the tube and not dried up/hard or liquified, it is OK to use.

Thanks. I’ll chuck the permatex $h*t then and just use the other stuff until it’s consumed. Then, I’ve got several options above to pick from.

 

[JHZR2]

We changed original pads at 95k. Fronts were 2mm, rears 1mm at 95k miles, mostly city use.

The key is to drive cautiously and gently. These are big, heavy vehicles that some would say have undersized brakes.

Our pins were ok shape, perhaps will need to be changed in another 95 k as they showed a bit of wear. They were very lightly greased. I very lightly used silicone. I reused the boots because they were fine. You just need to clean everything well, and work the boot into the ridges.

Not great photos but you can see the rub points and wear.

I’d argue that if you’re heavily greasing them, you’re doing more harm than good. Light amounts of quality silicone should be used.

Also clean and lube with some M-77 under and on the stainless slider shim.

Pads not sliding well and pins getting caught/wedged are all bad news. Less is more with the lubes.