'15 RAV4 brake slide pins stuck...

[JeffKeryk]

So we got this Uber clean '15 RAV4 Limited AWD for my friend from my Lexus dealership. He said the brakes felt "soft", so I pulled the fronts apart for a look. The pad/rotor looked new, but the pads leave dust on the fancy-pants wheels.
The driver side slide pin barely turned and was basically stuck. Grease was caked up. Cleaned and lubed them, cleaned bracket bore. Better.
Passenger pin was locked solid. Almost had to use the Tonya Harding 5000 to remove. What's that reddish stuff on the pin?

I've never seen this before. Wire brushed pin and test fit. Had to remove bushing. The rubber bellows was damaged so water musta got in and rust jacked the pin.

I ordered pins, bellows and a few lugs. Those Toyletta chrome covered lugs don't like the tire shop air gun.
My friend says the brakes are much better. Why people don't do the job right is beyond me.

 

[Reloader59]

The reddish stuff on the pins is most likely Toyota silicone grease. Exactly what you should be putting on your new pins.

 

[Nukeman7]

So we got this Uber clean '15 RAV4 Limited AWD for my friend from my Lexus dealership. He said the brakes felt "soft", so I pulled the fronts apart for a look. The pad/rotor looked new, but the pads leave dust on the fancy-pants wheels.
The driver side slide ping barely turned and was basically stuck. Grease was caked up. Cleaned and lubed them, cleaned bracket bore. Better.
Passenger pin was locked solid. Almost had to use the Tonya Harding 5000 to remove. What's that reddish stuff on the pin?

The reddish deposits on the pin are remnants of the Toyota lithium soap based rubber grease for brakes. I suspect it is the OEM grease from the factory and the slide pins have never been cleaned and re-greased since 2015.

I've never seen this before. Wire brushed pin and test fit. Had to remove bushing. The rubber bellows was damaged so water musta got in and rust jacked the pin.

I ordered pins, bellows and a few lugs. Those Toyletta chrome covered lugs don't like the tire shop air gun.
My friend says the brakes are much better. Why people don't do the job right is beyond me.

Shops are taking short cuts to beat the flat rate for all jobs. Not cleaning and lubing the pins saves 20 minutes of effort at $200/hr. That's $70 of extra profit for the shop for every front (or rear) brake job.

 

[ccs368]

There’s a good chance the red colored grease on the slide pins is Toyota’s p/n 08887-01206 which is a lithium soap-based glycol grease compatible with the rubber pin bushing, bellows, and piston boot.

 

[JeffKeryk]

The reddish deposits on the pin are remnants of the Toyota lithium soap based rubber grease for brakes. I suspect it is the OEM grease from the factory and the slide pins have never been cleaned and re-greased since 2015.

Shops are taking short cuts to beat the flat rate for all jobs. Not cleaning and lubing the pins saves 20 minutes of effort at $200/hr. That's $70 of extra profit for the shop for every front (or rear) brake job.

Could be. The wire brush helped but did not clean all the reddish stuff off. I knew right away I wanted new pins. Sure looked like rust to me. The pass pin was locked solid. The bushings were swollen and shot.

 

[Nukeman7]

Could be. The wire brush helped but did not clean all the reddish stuff off. I knew right away I wanted new pins. Sure looked like rust to me. The pass pin was locked solid. The bushings were swollen and shot.

If someone used a petroleum based grease, it would swell up and deform the rubber bushings and boots as discussed on this BITOG thread.

 

[boom10ful]

I'm not a fan of Toyota rubber grease for guide pins. I've seen too many cars have it harden and seize the pins after a few years. Personally, I use silicone grease for all of my pins without any issues.

 

[The Critic]

If someone used a petroleum based grease, it would swell up and deform the rubber bushings and boots as discussed on this BITOG thread.

The bushings seem to get swollen over time, regardless of which grease is used.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Shops are taking short cuts to beat the flat rate for all jobs. Not cleaning and lubing the pins saves 20 minutes of effort at $200/hr. That's $70 of extra profit for the shop for every front (or rear) brake job.

I guess it doesn't pay to do a job right and/or to go above and beyond. That's just sad, at least to me.
When I finally got a programmer job, I wanted to do the best I could, to learn, get better, and always deliver more and better than what was asked for. Why? Because I knew lay offs were part of the game and I wanted to be the last one on the list. I was grateful for the opportunity and I wanted more!

And it worked.

 

[researcher]

I guess it doesn't pay to do a job right and/or to go above and beyond. That's just sad, at least to me.
When I finally got a programmer job, I wanted to do the best I could, to learn, get better, and always deliver more and better than what was asked for. Why? Because I knew lay offs were part of the game and I wanted to be the last one on the list. I was grateful for the opportunity and I wanted more!

And it worked.

It really is just an epidemic of laziness lately in all trades, sad. But about the grease you're seeing, I'll put in my experience with the Toyota grease. It WILL dry out and get caked on, the grease only lasts about a year or so before drying. Anyone expecting it to last decades is dreaming. If ignored it will seize to the caliper, you're lucky you were able to get the pin out of the caliper! The good part about the grease.. it makes you service the brakes every year, which isn't a bad thing.

Toyota was very clear (as the other threads on Toyota's rubber grease shows) that you need to use a lithium soap based grease because it's compatible with the type of rubber Toyota used in the sliding pin bushings. Many will argue that silicone is not a problem, and I always say "Then why didn't Toyota use silcone grease!?" They used something different for a reason..

 

[Trav]

Many will argue that silicone is not a problem, and I always say "Then why didn't Toyota use silcone grease!?" They used something different for a reason..

Silicone greases is inert and not an issue with EPDM rubber which Toyotas also uses. They used something different to hopefully generate sales at the parts dept. German cars are notorious for requiring new bolts on almost everything even non TTY bolts, the difference many times is the new bolt has some thread locker on it.

 

[Donald]

It sure seems there are a lot of silicone brake lubricants that are either getting caked up after 2 years or swelling rubber parts.

Mission silicone paste is the only way to go.

I am thinking I should have cleaned and lubed the pins on the reman calipers I installed vs trust what they used where they were remanufactured.

 

[Delta]

I'm sorry I don't have anything really to add, but the mention of the Tonya Harding 5000 made me laugh out loud

 

[shortyb]

@Trav Grease FTW

https://www.amazon.com/Dielectric-E...-2-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&psc=1

 

[Capt W]

Caliper pins (and boots) should be considered routine maintenance items...especially in wet, snowy, and/or salty climates. It literally takes one minute to pull, clean, re-grease, re-install, and torque each one to spec. Very convenient to do this once a year while rotating tires. It's not worth waiting for them to gunk up.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Caliper pins (and boots) should be considered routine maintenance items...especially in wet, snowy, and/or salty climates. It literally takes one minute to pull, clean, re-grease, re-install, and torque each one to spec. Very convenient to do this once a year while rotating tires. It's not worth waiting for them to gunk up.

100%

 

[Reloader59]

How about a ceramic grease? Has anyone ever used Shark Industries Ceramlub 2800 for the pins? I heard it's very good for putting on shims and they state it can be used on pins.

 

[Nukeman7]

How about a ceramic grease? Has anyone ever used Shark Industries Ceramlub 2800 for the pins? I heard it's very good for putting on shims and they state it can be used on pins.

I have been using the Ceramalub 2800 grease for ~2 years now. It may be better initially than SilGlyde, but seems to get gummy/dry after 2 years, similar to the Toyota Rubber Grease. No problems with rubber swelling so far. It is kind of expensive @ $25/ 8 oz. tub, but not much more than the current $24 price of Mission Automotive's 100% silicone paste.

 

[kschachn]

The bushings seem to get swollen over time, regardless of which grease is used.

I also find too that here in the north there is sometimes rust in the bore of the caliper carrier where the bushing is located, and this squeezes on the pins as well. You have to pull out the bushing and ream out the bore to get back to bare metal. I then usually paint it before installing new bushings.

 

[Trav]

@Trav Grease FTW

https://www.amazon.com/Dielectric-Excellent-Lubricant-electrical-connectors/dp/B09ZDQ76XH/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?crid=19NXY6RGWHJ0D&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.nphQ9550fezxqsAHYVCEbRpV832o4KfKGe5y32kV4wU39XHUPhfUOAwMz92ol0HEA5dcaji6KSutg3T86vnyfSwlasgLqoU8sOnrx_64XWOmyObkaixMzOtS7rtnSnFDBBSbSAeFp4H8yEqqcEnFcwJcMz9zRfIgJizcIGAWzaY8UP1p7-3Gk562mgWa80wBELkhKsGgKbiq0SXwoZMZhEWu4-wm6yfrGG_i3TrEdu4_0fEgtZO44tujHSWpeeHwtEz8E156ooFAFvV1bOncfOf5L2f8WcZ03Hvbu7FGNkQ.IjLgXdtTISUoF-6O9t6eUmMSFvZoSzt7P5490pk4590&dib_tag=se&keywords=silicone+paste+automotive&qid=1769523284&rdc=1&sprefix=silicone+paste,aps,180&sr=8-2-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&psc=1

I used that when Mission was not available, it works fine.
Mission