Honda Develops New 1.8l i-VTEC Engine for New Honda Civic

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Just wondering; how do they get away with shunting charged air (meaning that which already has fuel mixed in) back out into the intake manifold?
 
I would expect that the upcoming Epsilon-based (Malibu is also Epsilon-based) Grand Am will be offering a manual. The previous generation, N-body based Grand Am did offer a manual (2004 model got 26/37 with the 2.2L Ecotec!), while the N-body based Malibu did not.

I don't know about the wisdom of only making the manual available in the Pontiac version..
 
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Originally posted by bulwnkl:
Just wondering; how do they get away with shunting charged air (meaning that which already has fuel mixed in) back out into the intake manifold?

The video did state that some fuel/air mix is momentarily pumped back out, but that doesn't make sense. That would mean that the air ratio isn't really controlled by the delayed intake valve closure, and the air drawn in by the cylinder in following cycles will already have fuel in it and mess up the ratios. I don't know, but I suspect that the air pumped back isn't charged. They probably delay the injectors until the intake closes, as normal. But even if that isn't the case, the air pumped back can't go far since there is pressure from air passing the throttle.
 
Honda has done it again with a brilliant design combining the best of the atkinson cycle with the best of the Otto cycle all in one engine. This will narrow the gap between the diesel and gas engines in terms of efficiency. I see no problems with this design other than at high load/output mode the ignition timing will have to be backed off and the mixture run richer to suppress detonation from the high 10.5 CR and will result in a efficiency loss at full throttle but the EPA does not measure fuel mileage at full throttle and most of us don't drive our cars at 100% throttle all the time. The intake manifold volume will hold the back pumping mixture and just use it on the next cyl cycle. The fuel mixture ox sensor feedback loop will keep the mixture right not a problem. Great stuff!!! Dan
 
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Originally posted by DR Racing:
Honda has done it again with a brilliant design combining the best of the atkinson cycle with the best of the Otto cycle all in one engine.

What did you mean they took from Atkinson Cycle? Longer intake stroke? But Atkinson engine has the power stroke longer then intake stroke. That's how it is more efficient then Otto. Am I missing something?

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Originally posted by DR Racing:
The intake manifold volume will hold the back pumping mixture and just use it on the next cyl cycle. The fuel mixture ox sensor feedback loop will keep the mixture right not a problem. Dan

After reading all responses on this one I still don't understand how do they get around this problem. We are talking about air-fuel mixture, not just the air because it is not direct-injection engine. So you suggest that after the last intake valve closes, the portion of the mixture travels to the different intake port? Not likely... If it stays suspended waiting for the next intake cycle, how likely is the wall condensation?
If the fuel/air mixture precision is determined by the oxygen sensor feedback, I'd say this would be very inaccurate and slow...
Still confused...
dunno.gif
 
"Gas prices going through the roof and they (GM) have NOTHING."
That's not true at all: There's a Saturn VUE with a surprisingly nice V6 in it. Or what about that little Pontiac SUV? Real reliable, I heard. Then they have all-new distinctive badges. And what about the new SAAB SUV that turns all the others invisible? That's real James Bond stuff. And there's that new Hummer H3: cute as an armored car and twice the MPGs. Who wouldn't like a Hummer? And there's all sorts of Opels, Suzukis, and Subarus to restyle. You call that NOTHING?
One word: Employee Discount, Baby! ED for short...
 
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What did you mean they took from Atkinson Cycle? Longer intake stroke? But Atkinson engine has the power stroke longer then intake stroke. That's how it is more efficient then Otto. Am I missing something?


By holding the intake open later you reduce the effective compression ratio enabling the use of a higher static CR which increases the expansion ratio for more efficiency but at a loss of peak power from a poor cylinder fill. The Ford escape hybrid and the Toyota prius also use this scheme but make up for the power loss with electric motor assist. Yes this is not a true atkinson cycle link with the strange crank setup but the end result is almost the same. Dan
 
Seems to be a radical departure from existing engines in that, according to the photo and Honda logo orientation, the engine will sit on the passenger side of the engine compartment and the tranny on the other. Interesting to see that change after all these years.
 
I read a road test in car and driver if my memorie is correct of a V12 flag ship bimmer with this system. The conclusion by the testers was they did not like it. It was hard to drive smoothly. The Honda setup gets rid of the worst offending high vacuum situations and will be smooth. The Germans are playing catch up with Honda the best engines in the world. Dan
 
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Originally posted by Schmoe:
When is the Accord going to a timing chain? Anybody???

The Accord 4 (and other vehicles with the 2.4) has had a timing chain since 2003. The V6 still has the timing belt.
 
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Originally posted by brianl703:

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Originally posted by darryld13:
Instead of using the throttle to control the air density (power output), the throttle is left wide open and the excess air that was drawn in due to the WOT is allowed to bleed back out the intake valve before combustion.

I didn't see the video, but it sounds like the intake valve is left open at the beginning of the compression stroke to bleed the excess air out?


That's what the video showed. I'm not sure how the amount bled/pumped out is metered, if at all. Probably doesn't matter and is averaged.
 
Pump pressure behind throttle plate? What kind of big word baloney is that? Plastic intakes...and plastic this and that to save on weight. I have more faith in a Honda engine than I would a GM engine, but I'd have to wait a few years to get the bugs out of these engines that are going to develope. Remember the problems with plastic intakes on GM's 3.8l and other sizes? This is also the first year production with a timing chain for Honda, there will be some issues that will need attention.
 
It is very rare for new Honda engines to have bugs and the S2K and accord have had chains for a few years now with no problems. The civic was waiting for a new engine design to get its chain. Honda will not design any new engines with a belt. Belts are Obsolete. Dan
 
Detonation can be controlled using adjustable exhaust valve timing to retain some exhaust in the cylinders during WOT operation. It's like EGR without an EGR valve.

The Ultimate Engine will have electric oil, and water pumps, and electric valves. When you want to back out of a parking spot, you could put the engine in reverse instead of the transmission.
 
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Originally posted by oilyriser:
Detonation can be controlled using adjustable exhaust valve timing to retain some exhaust in the cylinders during WOT operation. It's like EGR without an EGR valve.

Ford started doing this with their 2.0L Zetec engine in 1998. This engine had no EGR valve, instead using adjustable exahust valve timing to provide an EGR-type effect.

I believe one main reason for 42-volt electrical systems is for electromechanical actuation of valves.
 
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