So figuring with how tech/mechanical savvy everyone is here I figure it would be a good sounding board for what is amounting to my 3rd largest purchase in life - ya know when you spend these $$$ you gotta do your legwork.
So I have been in my condo for just over a year now (closed in Jan 2018) and I knew all the appliances and HVAC were original (water heater was replaced within last year) so they are all pushing 18-19 years old. Home inspector even warned me they are all living on borrowed time - I got a steal on the condo so I was willing to live with the aged appliances and HVAC but have been keeping my home warranty intact for "just in case". Well my HVAC has broke down 2x times now and its $85 per breakdown for them to come repair, went without air last summer for ~3 days in the Georgia heat because parts needed to be ordered and this winter it was 2 days without heat while waiting for parts. Always seems to happen during the extremes when the system is running its guts out to try to keep me comfortable. Today I decided to throw in the towel warranty be [censored] and actually spring for replacing the full system so I won't be left high and dry once cooling season pops up as well as to hopefully save some energy $$.
So system is builder grade First Co. 1.5 ton heat pump system and place was built with in ceiling air handler (these are a PITA). I had a 20 year old First Co. unit in my last apartment and seeing all those heat pumps outside I would wager to say that 75% of them were still running, very reliable based on my experience. The breakdowns and inefficiency are what is making me spring for a replacement. My condo complex I would say there is probably a solid 30% of the original First Co. units left - the rest are mainly Goodman or Amana replacements with a Lennox and Carrier here and there.
So getting into the in ceiling air handler that sits in a ~10" deep recess between my bathroom ceiling and my neighbor above floor. I had 2 companies straight up tell me to my face they had no interest in giving me a quote because the job was so involved due to the air handler, 1 other company just went silent on me. Of 5 companies I had out for quotes only got pricing back from 2 of them.
Company 1) Replacing with a Goodman matched system (Goodman, Amana and First Co. <- First Co. are made by Amana) are the only vendors who make the air handler I need. They wanted $5250 cash, credit card price was a few hundred higher due to CC processing fees. Their scope was so limited and the pushing towards paying cash was a huge turnoff for me but I hung on to the bid to compare.
Company 2) During a run to Costco there was a gentleman at the HVAC display so I figured might as well make the most of this membership beyond gas and some household necessities. Quote was for a mismatched Lennox 14HPX heat pump and First Co. air handler. $5725 but after all the cash back crap it ends up being $5076. Company that Costco uses offers free 1 year preventative maintenance and they will cover labor on repairs up to 10 years if I stay on their PM program. I am about to sign the contract with them but wanted some input.
1) Lennox 14HPX - this is their base model heat pump. Any good bad or ugly on this heat pump? I don't really need much more than this as my SEER rating is limited by the air handler, unless I revamp and expand the ceiling dead space where the air handler is located I am going to be limited to ~SEER 13, I have had both estimators tell me this is a function of the air handler space, apparently the higher SEER unit air handlers are larger because they have more coil.
2) Should I have concerns of the mismatched system (Lennox heat pump hooked to a First Co. air handler)?
Quite a few of my neighbors have the Goodman systems that were priced out by Company #1 and they are noisy AF especially during heat pump season, imagine an annoyingly loud aftermarket turbo blowoff valve when they switch back and forth from defrost mode. I really don't need to add to the noise.
Any input would be greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance!
Home heat pump advice/recommendations
- Thread starter pezzy669
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I'm an hvac tech and I can't stand goodman equipment. Their equipment is junk!
Originally Posted by CDX825
I'm an hvac tech and I can't stand goodman equipment. Their equipment is junk!
We have a Goodman Central Air (no heat pump-but has a Copeland Scroll compressor) that was installed in 2005 that keeps running like a champ.
Yet to have a service call. Sold and installed buy a guy who knows his stuff.
Goodman? No problems here!
From everything I have gathered with my experience with HVAC issues, it seems the quality of the installer is really more important than the brand name on the unit. I'd do some checks on my potential installers and see if any reviews are available. I went through this process about two years ago and wound up going with an American Standard system, not so much because of the American Standard (Trane) name, but because the local dealer has a reputation of gold. So far so good.
My 20 yr old Amer Stnd 2 ton still cranking out fine.
I have a Trane 4 ton and 6 ton units in my DE home that are both 1 year or two old. They get prev service 2x a year but aside from that no issues.
The choice come to cost, reliability, performance (cost to run) and noise.
And a good unit installed by a crappy HVAC company may have issues also.
sounds like you are in a bind due to not all manufacturers making the type of unit you require. Wish I could help,. In the past two years I replaces my dual fuel unit and heat pump both with Tranes. Builder specials lasted 10-12 years and were very loud, old coolant and basically junk. All manufacturers have 10 year warranty on parts I believe but wow your quotes seem high, my dual fuel was 4,000 and 16 seer heat pump with variable speed handler was 4,500. It was easy for me to compare apples to apples with the trane units and there was about a $2,000 difference between installers for the exact same unit
My understanding is that a 14 SEER is the minimum now but could be wrong. Lennox is good, IMO better than a Goodman. Make sure you register the unit for a warrany. Mine also requires an annual inspection to maintain the warranty.
We have a Goodman 92% gas furnace + Goodman condenser ( A/C only ) . No longer use the A/C . Went to mini splits and window units .
We are still using the gas furnace when the weather gets really cold .
Think you said 1-1/2 ton ? That is 18,000 BTU . Easily in the size range of a mini split . See if you can get quotes on one .
They are available in very high SEER ratings and a heat pump cost very little more than than A/C only .
Ours are wall mount , near the ceiling , but ceiling mount fan coil unites are available , both direct discharge and ducted .
Best of luck to you . :-)
Originally Posted by pezzy669
So figuring with how tech/mechanical savvy everyone is here I figure it would be a good sounding board for what is amounting to my 3rd largest purchase in life - ya know when you spend these $$$ you gotta do your legwork.
So I have been in my condo for just over a year now (closed in Jan 2018) and I knew all the appliances and HVAC were original (water heater was replaced within last year) so they are all pushing 18-19 years old. Home inspector even warned me they are all living on borrowed time - I got a steal on the condo so I was willing to live with the aged appliances and HVAC but have been keeping my home warranty intact for "just in case". Well my HVAC has broke down 2x times now and its $85 per breakdown for them to come repair, went without air last summer for ~3 days in the Georgia heat because parts needed to be ordered and this winter it was 2 days without heat while waiting for parts. Always seems to happen during the extremes when the system is running its guts out to try to keep me comfortable. Today I decided to throw in the towel warranty be [censored] and actually spring for replacing the full system so I won't be left high and dry once cooling season pops up as well as to hopefully save some energy $$.
So system is builder grade First Co. 1.5 ton heat pump system and place was built with in ceiling air handler (these are a PITA). I had a 20 year old First Co. unit in my last apartment and seeing all those heat pumps outside I would wager to say that 75% of them were still running, very reliable based on my experience. The breakdowns and inefficiency are what is making me spring for a replacement. My condo complex I would say there is probably a solid 30% of the original First Co. units left - the rest are mainly Goodman or Amana replacements with a Lennox and Carrier here and there.
So getting into the in ceiling air handler that sits in a ~10" deep recess between my bathroom ceiling and my neighbor above floor. I had 2 companies straight up tell me to my face they had no interest in giving me a quote because the job was so involved due to the air handler, 1 other company just went silent on me. Of 5 companies I had out for quotes only got pricing back from 2 of them.
Company 1) Replacing with a Goodman matched system (Goodman, Amana and First Co. <- First Co. are made by Amana) are the only vendors who make the air handler I need. They wanted $5250 cash, credit card price was a few hundred higher due to CC processing fees. Their scope was so limited and the pushing towards paying cash was a huge turnoff for me but I hung on to the bid to compare.
Company 2) During a run to Costco there was a gentleman at the HVAC display so I figured might as well make the most of this membership beyond gas and some household necessities. Quote was for a mismatched Lennox 14HPX heat pump and First Co. air handler. $5725 but after all the cash back crap it ends up being $5076. Company that Costco uses offers free 1 year preventative maintenance and they will cover labor on repairs up to 10 years if I stay on their PM program. I am about to sign the contract with them but wanted some input.
1) Lennox 14HPX - this is their base model heat pump. Any good bad or ugly on this heat pump? I don't really need much more than this as my SEER rating is limited by the air handler, unless I revamp and expand the ceiling dead space where the air handler is located I am going to be limited to ~SEER 13, I have had both estimators tell me this is a function of the air handler space, apparently the higher SEER unit air handlers are larger because they have more coil.
2) Should I have concerns of the mismatched system (Lennox heat pump hooked to a First Co. air handler)?
Quite a few of my neighbors have the Goodman systems that were priced out by Company #1 and they are noisy AF especially during heat pump season, imagine an annoyingly loud aftermarket turbo blowoff valve when they switch back and forth from defrost mode. I really don't need to add to the noise.
Any input would be greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance!
Since your system is probably refrigerent 22 ( can look on the name tag on outside unit) the new systems are 410A meaning that the coil in the air handle might have to be replaced with the correct metering device, refrigerent lines should be replaced but since they are buried in walls they need the be flushed to remove any oil that is in them. Most heat pumps when going in and out defrost make that load noise because high pressure refrigerant is changing direction of flow. Can you see or have the model # and brand of the air handler call the manufacturer see if they make a replacement. Does the 1.5 ton system take care of your condo?
Does your condo unit have a central closet you would be willing to give up?
By pass the ceiling mount air handler. Run the lines to closet with a stand alone coil and blower assembly.
Cut the closet door for the return and supply grills. Just thinking outside the box!
not lennox
trane or am std
Thanks everyone for the heads up on the Lennox - I'm rolling with the mismatched system (Lennox compressor matched to First. Co air handler) because this has been such a thorn in my side to get a vendor to be interested in doing the work. I think the bids are all inflated because they know these stupid in ceiling air handlers are such a pain. They are great for a saving square footage perspective (my condo is only 784 sq/ft) but from a service and future needs perspective they are not so great. I am now limited to an assumed 14 SEER unless I expand the ceiling dead space or relocate the air handler (have seen some units in my complex move it to the laundry room above the dryer).
Company I am using has very good reviews (4.9 stars from 1300+ reviews) so think they are pretty solid - the techs are here right now and are very professional and have a good setup going on. They include 1 year free preventative maintenance and labor warranty will be extended up to the length of the equipment materials warranty as long as I maintain the preventative maintenance program with them.
Hoping for some reduced electric bills!
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