Fuel oil going to ultra low sulfur was one of the best things to ever happen. Heat exchangers rarely get sooted up since they switched to low sulfur. Ive only had to vacuum out 3 this winter out of hundreds of oil customers. Guys that I know who were into oil service before the switch say that they were doing 2 or 3 a week before the switch to ultra low sulfur.
Home Fuel Oil is Insane Right Now in NYS
- Thread starter HankHill
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Tech who cleaned my box and exchangers a few years ago said it was super clean, recommend only checking the box every other year, and cleaning only when dirty. Nozzles I do every other year in my burner..
Property taxes, yes, higher. Not sure how to compare, but I was super excited to be paying $17 per 1,000 value (1.7%). Meant that when I moved I was at only $4k per year taxes. Down in the more desirable (?) towns it is not unheard of to have a tax bill in excess of $10k per year.
So yes, the lack of income and sales tax is shifted to property. So one would do well to shop carefully.
Did you make any progress on the natural gas line at the neighbor’s house? That would be the route I’d go if it’s not terribly expensive.
Not yet, they both work all day and every time I get free its past seven at night.. I don't want to bother them and maybe freak them out with a question that may be considered a private thing.... Still haven't had the meeting yet, availability of people has been off, and now I feel like they've just giving up on the idea. Meh, I'll get my answers one way or another.
My property and school taxes combined are a bit over $10 right now. I just started the process of having my property revalued, they have to things incorrectly screwed up on the assessment. Square footage and value of property. My house is still listed as 2300 sq/feet and the property is valued about $50-70 more than its worth, all day.
Apparently I have to hire my own evaluation of the property, the county assessor is famous for stupid high evaluations..
I then submit my private evaluation and then the back and forth begins. That may not be an accurate representation of the process, I'm just going by information I've heard from bullchit sessions at work.
The other town bordering my house is in another county. County taxes are stupid low... School and town taxes are crazy, something like $18k per household property values the same as mine.
I've turned into my grandfather, bitching about taxes and current events all the time
C 'comparable sales" of local houses like yours. I think that's how they do it. It must B pretty close in terms of age, rooms. updates, etc. The further away (geo. distance) frm ur own the less the 'comparability'. If having only sales in ur neighborhood rate urs in comparison to them (figure same - age, updates, # rms, sq ft, etc). Ie "my house is @ bottom of neighborhood, mid, etc" & adjust according to THIS neighborhood as it relates to 'comprable sales" (ie is ina upscale area, mid, low).
2nd U R on a line (plus conditions on ether side are different). They will say U must go w/ur side of the line the other doesnt count. This is where have some room and should press them for it.
Good luck. In our town the employees hate us for asking, then confronting as we R getting gentrified (a rural area w/several colleges) by students. Buyers come in w/cash in hand, convert private homes into absentee landloard student rentals - @ costs (kids double & tripple up ina bed rm unlike families) the locals (these kids come in from hi income states CT, NJ, NY) can not afford. Good luck, goferit !
2nd U R on a line (plus conditions on ether side are different). They will say U must go w/ur side of the line the other doesnt count. This is where have some room and should press them for it.
Good luck. In our town the employees hate us for asking, then confronting as we R getting gentrified (a rural area w/several colleges) by students. Buyers come in w/cash in hand, convert private homes into absentee landloard student rentals - @ costs (kids double & tripple up ina bed rm unlike families) the locals (these kids come in from hi income states CT, NJ, NY) can not afford. Good luck, goferit !
I gotta run my M1 commander so I would be over with ya. I have No income tax, no sales tax but
high Property taxes can be Really high depending on the town. My little town just floated a bond a decade ago for a new $36M school.
My prop taxes were $2400 a year on a little log cabin on a hill in the woods.
They are now 21 dollars per thousand valuation. 13 of that is the new school !
so now I am at 5200 a year. But free trash pickup. and they pave the roads.
In fact they over did my street its like a highway and people drive fast where before they couldn't
My oil burner is on it last legs so I am looking at a propane conversion. Many times the propane company will subsidize
the install. Around here you don't own the tank ( the back yard RED October ) you lease it.
The big Issue is having a low efficiency with a gas conversion compare to a modern condensing boiler.
Then, the lower energy content of propane vs oil. Fuel oil can generate approximately 130,000 BTU's while propane is approximately
95,000 BTU's - per HCI webpage
I would just bite the bullet and wait the price silliness out. Gasoline will remain high, but #2 fuel oil should come way down off heating season. We can all HOPE
ps if i had natural gas I be all over that - though a couple towns over the state line blew up and burnt down due to an over pressure event a few years ago.
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Zee09
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My neighbor like me went through five years of hell with his sick mother.
He scammed me good but I didn't mind. He was embarrassed that he didn't have his burner cleaned in 5 years.
So I stayed there for him and said he was away and the burner guy handed me his bill and several pictures.
He said the thing was spotless.
Got me thinking every year may be a waste. Of course I get it with the oil contract.
I was at $16K in school and local property taxes when I moved from Columbia NY to Delaware. My Delaware house is a little less expensive than the NY house but the taxes are around $1000 (one thousand). No sales tax in Delaware.
For $16K of local property taxes I lived on a dirt road that was scraped a few times a year to eliminate mud ruts and snow plowed. No water or sewer or trash pickup provided.
Zee09
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Same with PA.
Taxes take away the ability for people to upkeep their places.
you forgot coal , thats all im gonna say , cause i dont want epa guy knocking on my front door , wink ,wink
My aunt used to burn coal for cooking prior to the 90s in the PLA barrack for probably at least 40 years since she got married. You can smell it from far away. It does not smell like wood.
EPA will knock on your door if you always burn coal in an "unconventional" way.
Oh no I didn't forget coal. I called a local store located out in the country, they sell wood boilers. Outside boilers meeting current EP specs have some new emissions features that have doubled the prices of the units. If you live in the country and if you have a backyard that's sheltered from the road, then you can still get an outdoor burner at the old price.
Since you mentioned coal, indoor boilers are not subject to the new EPA regulations. They still have indoor coal burners and wood burners. The indoor wood burner is much more expensive the coal burning units, yes coal. You can burn wood 100% of the time in a "coal burning" boiler. Again, indoor coal burners are cheaper than indoor wood burners.
Pour a slab in your backyard and build a weatherproof shed. Install indoor coal burner out in shed with a exhaust thats not obvious if seen. Live before the regulations.
I looked at used wood boilers (which would be illegal for me to install) and they are all overpriced junk. Value is so high because of new regulations and high coast of new units. I'm not going to buy a used unit that looks like rusted shed with unknown issues at 75% of the cost of the new indoor coal boiler. The guy at the store let me know that trick, I'll be buying from them if I ever decide to pull the trigger. AGAIN, there are no new regulations on indoor coal burning units. Coal...
Edit to say: In my town, if you want to gut your kitchen you need a building permit. They will stop by if they see a dumpster. You need a permit to remove your siding and install new. You need a permit if you want to replace a single window in your house. I would have to get a permit to build the shed, especially with a slab. In order to get a permit for structural work you have to get an engineer to stamp your plans, at least you can draw your own but an engineer would likely not stamp the plans if you don't have plans that are not printed using a CAD program, and he has to know types and sizes of wood, fastener's, nails, shingles, siding. You need a materials appendix and all the dimensions must be appropriately identified.
Since you mentioned coal, indoor boilers are not subject to the new EPA regulations. They still have indoor coal burners and wood burners. The indoor wood burner is much more expensive the coal burning units, yes coal. You can burn wood 100% of the time in a "coal burning" boiler. Again, indoor coal burners are cheaper than indoor wood burners.
Pour a slab in your backyard and build a weatherproof shed. Install indoor coal burner out in shed with a exhaust thats not obvious if seen. Live before the regulations.
I looked at used wood boilers (which would be illegal for me to install) and they are all overpriced junk. Value is so high because of new regulations and high coast of new units. I'm not going to buy a used unit that looks like rusted shed with unknown issues at 75% of the cost of the new indoor coal boiler. The guy at the store let me know that trick, I'll be buying from them if I ever decide to pull the trigger. AGAIN, there are no new regulations on indoor coal burning units. Coal...
Edit to say: In my town, if you want to gut your kitchen you need a building permit. They will stop by if they see a dumpster. You need a permit to remove your siding and install new. You need a permit if you want to replace a single window in your house. I would have to get a permit to build the shed, especially with a slab. In order to get a permit for structural work you have to get an engineer to stamp your plans, at least you can draw your own but an engineer would likely not stamp the plans if you don't have plans that are not printed using a CAD program, and he has to know types and sizes of wood, fastener's, nails, shingles, siding. You need a materials appendix and all the dimensions must be appropriately identified.
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When I get a fill-up (usually 350 gals), I put in a bottle of “Howes Diesel-treat” and a maintenance dose of “Biobor” just for the reason of ULS #2 fuel oil. Upon inspection of my Oil filter after the Fall annual maintenance, it looks brand new. Same with the Nozzle.
Maintenance is key!
I never knew how easy it was to work on until I had a tech teach me quickly, tipped him IIRC 25$.
My dad used to have a service done every year for roughly $250, tech was always done in 30 mins. I've inspected the box and exchangers for the last two years and its still squeaky clean. Change the nozzle every year but had to skip last year as I couldn't find a .8 nozzle anywhere. Said f it. Nozzle was still clean when swapped this summer.
Thanks for the info on the additives. Def going to use Biobor, still researching other additives to use in conjunction. Indoor tank that stays above 60* in the winter. I'll start with Biobor and work my way out to another when I've seen enough recommendations and research on it.
I know Amherst and its still worse than my town in terms of transplants from the city. Most incoming NYC transplant are very wealthy and have quick influence in the community on school boards and have even made their way onto the planning board, school board, building and development department. Lots of new construction going up that are duplexes and apartment buildings.
My local sportsman's has been the subject of lawsuits about a shooting club in what used to be a medium density area and the club has been there for over 70 years. A housing development was built a quarter mile down the road on the opposite side of the road from the club. $400k up to $600k homes. When people moved in they began to complain to the town because of the noise, they were all told by the builder about the club, because of the club. They insisted and he did, they all were told and there were no issues about it than. FF a year and they began to complain about the noise, and the noise isn't that bad. Club is built in a big sand pit and its reflects the sound upward. They complained to the town again citing safety issues, the club had to hire a lawyer and have the entire thing surveyed and they had to prove that it was impossible for a ricochet (sand berms) or ability for bullet to have trajectory where it would ever come close to impacting any houses in the area. Next, the community got together and hired a lawyer an sued the club for damages, etc because of the noise and fear from the perceived threat of the gunshots. Again, club had to lawyer up, pretty sure they were told to pound sand. The club is in constant threat from that development, other people who are seeking damages from fear of safety issues, and just plain old random people the live on the other side of town 15 miles away that just hate firearms, and can't believe there could ever be a club, in their town, "that supports murder and gun violence". Membership fees are going up every year, and the cost has turned many people away. YAY transplants!!
Some random thoughts:
I heat, during winter, primarily with #2 fuel oil and baseboard. I also burn 1-2 cord of wood in a wood stove. Wood stove is sweetest with outside air temps of 0-15'F, the house doesn't overheat and the pressure causes the stove to draw well. If it's colder than that I begrudgingly run the boiler so the baseboard pipes don't freeze, and so the far corners of the house get heat.
So this oil price shock hit me here too, and it motivated me to get a 23k BTU DIY mini-split heat pump. ("Mr. Cool" from HD) Have been running that thing for two weeks straight, during the long pre-spring of 25'F nights, 40'F days. My oil tank is doing very well and my electricity isn't bad either.
If you want backup heat, consider a wood pellet stove. These can be "dryer vented" out the side of your house and you won't have to do expensive chimney work. Electrically they don't need much to run the glow plug and fans, and can be powered off an inverter and car battery if necessary.
I heat, during winter, primarily with #2 fuel oil and baseboard. I also burn 1-2 cord of wood in a wood stove. Wood stove is sweetest with outside air temps of 0-15'F, the house doesn't overheat and the pressure causes the stove to draw well. If it's colder than that I begrudgingly run the boiler so the baseboard pipes don't freeze, and so the far corners of the house get heat.
So this oil price shock hit me here too, and it motivated me to get a 23k BTU DIY mini-split heat pump. ("Mr. Cool" from HD) Have been running that thing for two weeks straight, during the long pre-spring of 25'F nights, 40'F days. My oil tank is doing very well and my electricity isn't bad either.
If you want backup heat, consider a wood pellet stove. These can be "dryer vented" out the side of your house and you won't have to do expensive chimney work. Electrically they don't need much to run the glow plug and fans, and can be powered off an inverter and car battery if necessary.
Well cost is a huge factor for me right now, I'm hurting financially due to a divorce. No kids, alimony, or other encumbrances. Just a dual income home went to a single over night.
When I started this thread I was willing to pay a for a supplemental heating source too the tune of $10k (ish). Going over my finances, I've taken a second look and realized that if I can just get a gas hook-up, it will save me enough next winter to have more of budget for a system for winter 2024.
I've been researching and pricing systems out and I had a kink for wood boilers. That would be awesome! But, with a natural gas hook up, it will be cheap enough to not justify the cost of a boiler, plus I can't afford one now.
Pellet stoves are kinda cheap around $4k with install, but again, finances.
I also like the idea of a standalone source of heat in case the power goes out for a while. I know that you can use batteries, but my power was out for three days straight last winter, that sucked. Had to drain the water from the plumbing and stay at my mothers.
That experience has embolden the thought of a standalone source of heat. I've been looking at wood stoves and they are really cheap for an old ugly chunk of iron, but **** they are cheap. The real cost of the install would be lining my chimney. Growing up we had a chimney fire and the fire inspector said its not safe for any further use.
Stove in the basement best, or first floor 2nd best (that would be cheaper for chimney piping cost) and knock a hole and install a exterior tin stack . that should be under $1500
Just checked "foolishly" expecting oil to go down, went up to $4.799
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