Hijacked

[TiGeo]

I'm curious about the "legends" appellation and how you see those folks.

I don't think it comes with post count, per se. My perspective is that that the real influencers are those whose posts are good - thoughtful, informed, etc.

While we are all here because of a shared interest (oil, tangentially, cars and trucks) there are clearly some folks with great expertise in this area. I would think that matters more than post count, certainly more than moderator status, which is basically an administrative function.

I agree with your points - I used post count to illustrate a point but sure, many other all-stars here aren't massive post-count members. Either way, these people are...to your original point of questioning whether folks are influencers.....influencers within the scope of this discussion.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

To be fair....I think what ruffles some feathers is the no licenses/approvals bit w/r to HPL for some and the "Oh that? Don't worry about that" by many supporters. While not an issue to me with HPL (using it), folks should be able to objectively understand that concern some have with folks that may have downplayed other oils in the past without licensee/approvals...which can make it seem to some as blind fanboi-ism.

Generally speaking, I haven’t seen anyone recommend HPL for people under warranty for this exact reason- nobody wants liability if there is a claim. If you look almost across the board, HPL users here are almost all out of warranty and therefore choosing an oil that will best protect their investments.

There are a few people who are in warranty and choosing to use HPL on their brand new vehicles because they know the oil will protect better than the spec oil because of top-shelf formulation, but they aren’t telling anybody else to do what they are doing.

 

[kschachn]

Considering that a new-vehicle warranty is predicated on engine damage rather than grade or brand, there isn't going to be a problem.

 

[TiGeo]

That's a fair point, but one that has not gone unsaid about some other brands such as Amsoil, Valvoline, etc. Licenses and approvals can come from not only orginizations (API for industry standards), but also OEM (for brand-specific standards of engine oils, tranny oils, etc). Licensing is a frequent topic about many products and many brands here. If one understands licensing, it's a minium standard, but not a max standard. Licensing and approvals are a two-way street.

*************************

I think what confounds me in this thread topic is that, in the absence of an HPL-type company (one that makes premium products and is directly involved with the BITOG community), BITOGers would complain that there's no company that listens to the lube enthusiast; that there's no support for the niche buyer. Then, when we get a company that shows up and gives a darn to the "n"th degree, a company that answers our questions directly and provides products we ask for, we then get people who complain about the perceived "hijacking" of the niche community.

Most companies would just ignore BITOG; we're a microcosm. Most companies just direct you to a website FAQ page or have you call a 800 "tech line" manned by morons who only read boilerplate canned answers from a computer screen.

Now, we now have a company owned by a guy who takes direct interest in our conversations here, and responds to niche customer demands. And what's our BITOG response? Question the motives and complain about the results.

Pablo has represented Amsoil admirably over the nearly two decades of BITOG. Gary Allan used to do so as well. We used to have a Schaeffers guy around here; not seen him in some time. I find it comforting to know that some folks who rep premium products stick around, regardless of their brand.

Let's see if we can summarize this:
- WAAAAHHHH ... no one cares about us (say the BITOGers)
- HI; I'm hear to listen and help provide answers and products for your specific needs in support of your web community (says HPL)
- WAAAAHHHH ... we got hijacked (say the BITOGers)

And people here wonder why I refer to BITOGers as a fickle-minded bunch?

The overall "vibe" on this forum and by it's members is pro-HPL and being happy they are here/doing their thing to all your points - great outfit, I've spoken with Dave on the phone several times and was happy to work with him on the Euro oils by providing some data/feedback from my VW. The folks that seem to have an issue with it are a minority so keep that in mind as well. You'll never make everyone happy but the discourse is healthy and comes with it and needs to be allowed to exist b/c if it doesn't, the notion of preferential treatment/fanboi-ism will only grow. Rather than effectively call some members cry babies, HPL would be better served by those that are supporters/customers just hanging their hats on the positives such is outlined in your post, recommending the products when they make sense, and also acknolwedging that HPL oils aren't for everyone or appropriate in every case. Much more credibility.

 

[Pablo]

Let's see if we can summarize this:
- WAAAAHHHH ... no one cares about us (say the BITOGers)
- HI; I'm hear to listen and help provide answers and products for your specific needs in support of your web community (Amsoil; HPL)
- WAAAAHHHH ... we got hijacked (say the BITOGers)

And people here wonder why I refer to BITOGers as a fickle-minded bunch?

Maybe.

I cannot by my position point out the posts when people treat HPL as nectar of GOD.

No one is publicly complaining about anything regarding HPL because frankly they are small and the sample is small, but two different members have privately mentioned their goofs in shipping wrong products and such, but fear mentioning it in publicly - because the excessive cheer leading. This kind of error happens with EVERY company. I'm sure Dave knows about at least one of these cases. Point is there seems to be little hesitation to mention when Amsoil or other company goofs up.

NOW if someone says something POSITIVE about Amsoil? I mean just the last week that person was made fun of.

I am ready for people to hurl all kinds of words at me. I know, jealousy, Amsoil is not as good, I'm just a stooge, etc.

I have NOTHING against HPL. But keep it factual and no one should have fear of reprisal.

 

[TiGeo]

Maybe.

I cannot by my position point out the posts when people treat HPL as nectar of GOD.

No one is publicly complaining about anything regarding HPL because frankly they are small and the sample is small, but two different members have privately mentioned their goofs in shipping wrong products and such, but fear mentioning it in publicly - because the excessive cheer leading. This kind of error happens with EVERY company. I'm sure Dave knows about at least one of these cases. Point is there seems to be little hesitation to mention when Amsoil or other company goofs up.

NOW if someone says something POSITIVE about Amsoil? I mean just the last week that person was made fun of.

I am ready for people to hurl all kinds of words at me. I know, jealousy, Amsoil is not as good, I'm just a stooge, etc.

I have NOTHING against HPL. But keep it factual and no one should have fear of reprisal.

I have seen this exact phenomenon in the VW community w/r to one of the wildly popular "can do no wrong" tuning companies. To the point of pitchforks/torches in the cases where they make mistakes or actually produce a sub-par product (that isn't the case here) and someone calls them out. Many are afraid to post anything negative in that community for fear of a witch hunt. The sad thing is, that company is better served by it's rabid fan-base by the NOT doing that as it discredits them. Not quite the same case here but a similar issue for discussion. I have seen the issue here you may be speaking of where someone had an issue w/r shipping and they were jumped on by some enthusiastic supporters...it's more minor than the case I spoke of above for the VW tuner but present on BITOG at times.

Maybe I need to buy some Amsoil Euro 5W40 from you to try to bring balance to the force.

 

[Kira]

When HPL makes a "German Castrol" and sells it in a box and dyes it purple and names it Davesoil and acquires exclusive rights to make orange colored filters, all will be right with the world.

 

[dnewton3]

No one is publicly complaining about anything regarding HPL

I would disagree; this thread is evidence of public complaint regarding HPL. I don't think anyone would interpret the thread title of "Hijacked" as a postive comment. The implication is that HPL is somehow becoming a controlling entity of BITOG.

.. but two different members have privately mentioned their goofs in shipping wrong products and such, but fear mentioning it in publicly - because the excessive cheer leading. This kind of error happens with EVERY company. I'm sure Dave knows about at least one of these cases. Point is there seems to be little hesitation to mention when Amsoil or other company goofs up.

I believe that our direct BITOG sponsors (you, and Dave) have 100% vested interest in the reputations here. Any issues would be dealt with promptly. And you are correct; shipping mistakes happen. That's not so much a reflection on the product as the service. Two different topics. But still, a fair mention. People should not fear speaking the truth; facts matter, regardless of the brand.

NOW if someone says something POSITIVE about Amsoil? I mean just the last week that person was made fun of.

I'll say it; Amsoil makes great products. I do not believe that Amsoil is the right choice for all applications; that would depend upon a host of considerations. My main complaint about Amsoil is not the products themselves, but the users. I believe that using premium syns for short OCIs is a total waste of money. That would apply to HPL as well. And RL, RP, Schaeffers, Mobil 1 ... Most people conflate the product and it's use. Many products are right for some applications; rarely is any product right for all applications.

I have NOTHING against HPL. But keep it factual and no one should have fear of reprisal.

I could not agree more, and I suspect Dave would feel the same regarding Amsoil and the truth, however it would be revealed.

 

[TiGeo]

Maybe.

I cannot by my position point out the posts when people treat HPL as nectar of GOD.

No one is publicly complaining about anything regarding HPL because frankly they are small and the sample is small, but two different members have privately mentioned their goofs in shipping wrong products and such, but fear mentioning it in publicly - because the excessive cheer leading. This kind of error happens with EVERY company. I'm sure Dave knows about at least one of these cases. Point is there seems to be little hesitation to mention when Amsoil or other company goofs up.

NOW if someone says something POSITIVE about Amsoil? I mean just the last week that person was made fun of.

I am ready for people to hurl all kinds of words at me. I know, jealousy, Amsoil is not as good, I'm just a stooge, etc.

I have NOTHING against HPL. But keep it factual and no one should have fear of reprisal.

Doesn't Amsoil also produce a no-VII oil.."Dominator"?

 

[Astro14]

No one is publicly complaining about anything regarding HPL because frankly they are small and the sample is small, but two different members have privately mentioned their goofs in shipping wrong products and such, but fear mentioning it in publicly - because the excessive cheer leading.

@Pablo - we have had entire threads publicly complaining, criticizing and questioning HPL. More than just posts.

Threads.

So, your “no one is complaining” is verifiably false. There are lots of people questioning and more than a few complaining.

I‘ve bought quite a bit of AMSOIL, through you, and defended the product when it gets attacked.

I’ve also recommended Mobil 1 0W40 in the past week, and seen it recommended. So, I don’t see the love, or hate, for one oil over another any more than usual.

Not everyone needs a high performance oil, or computer, or car, or phone, or tool set, but it’s great when the market provides those high end options.

Frankly, High Performance Lubricants deserves the cheerleading. Look, we have never seen an oil company respond to customers, or folks on this forum, the way that they have. We have never had any other oil company invite us to their facility, and give us a tour.

That has never happened before. It is unique. It is praiseworthy.

 

[dogememe]

I’ve used Amsoil in the past, and had great experiences. I think they make great products. I find the marketing and sales of it a little iffy. But the product itself is great!

Never uses HPL however I’m sure it’s just as good if not better in some cases. If I had a newer, higher-end vehicle, or a speciality application, and I had lots of money, it would have either AMSOIL or HPL in it.

But for what I have now cheap off the shelf lubricants are fine. It’s a 30 year old truck with 300k, I can put O’Reilly brand lubes in it or off the shelf stuff from Walmart and it will not matter. If something were to break it would not be because of the brand of oil.

 

[TiGeo]

@Pablo - we have had entire threads publicly complaining, criticizing and questioning HPL. More than just posts.

Threads.

So, your “no one is complaining” is verifiably false. There are lots of people questioning and more than a few complaining.

I‘ve bought quite a bit of AMSOIL, through you, and defended the product when it gets attacked.

I’ve also recommended Mobil 1 0W40 in the past week, and seen it recommended. So, I don’t see the love, or hate, for one oil over another any more than usual.

Not everyone needs a high performance oil, or computer, or car, or phone, or tool set, but it’s great when the market provides those high end options.

Frankly, High Performance Lubricants deserves the cheerleading. Look, we have never seen an oil company respond to customers, or folks on this forum, the way that they have. We have never had any other oil company invite us to their facility, and give us a tour.

That has never happened before. It is unique. It is praiseworthy.

This is the one I recall as a good example of what is being discussed here. No rants, nothing rude, a simple questions.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/hpl-supercar-0w20-65-for-6-qt.362597/#post-6307625

 

[spasm3]

Just because HPL has a following and has developed a great customer service relationship with members, does not constitute a knock of other brands products.

In fact HPL has even said that M1 0w-40 is an excellent product. IIRC David even said publicly that amsoil makes fine products.

 

[Revving2Redline]

Don't feel bad. I'm one of the very few Redline oil users and I catch a lot of guff about it. Sometimes you almost have to be kind of tone deaf to block it out. All the oils out there that are at least synthetic have a place. Summer based on cost, availability and sometimes it's a preference that's either political or where it's manufactured. We have a lot of people on here that are supposed experts about what kind of oil you could have used in your car and it would still look the same way to the ones who refused to pay anything over a dollar a quart yet will spend $20 on a cup of coffee and a pack of cigarettes.

 

[Cujet]

I have not purchased or received any HPL products.

I am not immune to the fact that HPL makes products that perfectly fit my needs, and have published specs to help me choose.

Other lubrication products and companies do their very best to publish a minimum of specifications, information and nebulous data. with Them it is just a guess as to what you are purchasing

 

[kschachn]

Other lubrication products and companies do their very best to publish a minimum of specifications, information and nebulous data. with Them it is just a guess as to what you are purchasing

Other companies may not publish all the information you may personally desire to read, but that’s hardly making it a guess on your part. There are the licenses, specifications and approvals that the oil carries or does not carry. When I buy Mobil 1 ESP 5W-30 for my Tiguan I’m not making a guess as to the performance. VW 504 00 approval is not “nebulous”.

If you had all this data you want but no approval, could you yourself predict that the oil without VW 504 00 approval meets the totality of the requirements of that approval?

 

[Pablo]

@Pablo - we have had entire threads publicly complaining, criticizing and questioning HPL. More than just posts.

Threads.

So, your “no one is complaining” is verifiably false. There are lots of people questioning and more than a few complaining.

I‘ve bought quite a bit of AMSOIL, through you, and defended the product when it gets attacked.

I’ve also recommended Mobil 1 0W40 in the past week, and seen it recommended. So, I don’t see the love, or hate, for one oil over another any more than usual.

Not everyone needs a high performance oil, or computer, or car, or phone, or tool set, but it’s great when the market provides those high end options.

Frankly, High Performance Lubricants deserves the cheerleading. Look, we have never seen an oil company respond to customers, or folks on this forum, the way that they have. We have never had any other oil company invite us to their facility, and give us a tour.

That has never happened before. It is unique. It is praiseworthy.

Threads? I must have missed them. I'm not LOOKING for threads with complaining - so you sort of missed my main point. My reason for using that word is to simply state the sample size of users/time is relatively small, so I don't expect complaints.

I'm looking for a level of objectivity. Period. Not cheer leading.

 

[Cujet]

Other companies may not publish all the information you may personally desire to read, but that’s hardly making it a guess on your part. There are the licenses, specifications and approvals that the oil carries or does not carry. When I buy Mobil 1 ESP 5W-30 for my Tiguan I’m not making a guess as to the performance. VW 504 00 approval is not “nebulous”.

If you had all this data you want but no approval, could you yourself predict that the oil without VW 504 00 approval meets the totality of the requirements of that approval?

Given enough data, it is possible to determine an oil’s suitability. The approvals interest me less than you might think. VW and other manufacturers have a long history of approved oils that result in problems.

I trust M1, and your example of 5W-30 ESP is a great one. I have no idea if it contains some or any PAO, GTL, or AN base stocks, not to mention the VI quantity used. What is clear is that this oil has a very modest additive package and a relatively high pour point And I believe, a less than robust HTHS. Like it or not, this is not the robust M1 from years past. It has half the horsepower. What I trust is that that M1 is likely to perform well in anything that calls for it.

What is is not expected to do is perform like the more robust products of the past.

 

[vavavroom]

I have never seen a single pop-up ad or ad banner on this site. What is HPL?

 

[TheLawnRanger]

I agree with Pablo that all companies make mistakes. I'm going to step up and call one out right now. A couple of months ago, I ordered three boxes of Havoline Lifelong 5w30 full synthetic. The first two boxes were fine, no problems at all. Then I opened the third box. I knew from the first sip that it tasted a little off. I had just gotten over a cold and was hoping it was something to do with that. I knew instantly when I took that first bite of corn flakes that the oil was stale. The worst part was that it was the last of the corn flakes and the only other oil I had was 0w20. When I called the Havoline hot line, the customer service representative had the nerve to laugh at me. Havoline/Chevron/Texaco has been getting a free ride for too long. I'm glad I've had the opportunity to tell my story.