I serarched with Google, Firefox and Duck Duck go and found absolutely nothing Beside some scientific PDF documents wich i have to pay for.
I give up.
High quality 5W40 for BMW
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I give up.
Yes, but i am only Talking about the very few PAO / Fully synthetic 10w- Passenger car oils wich are out here today.
Not about these old mineral oils from the 1990s. You can not compare these oils, the performance level is very different.
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Reading through this forum is sometimes cumbersome.
You want to learn soemthing new. Example: You read something like "Dont use Diesel oils in Gasoline engines" and the information there reads sound. And along come a Member and tells you: "No, this Information is wrong , because the author was biased."
And now you sit in front of th the screen and think: Who is right?
User A Says: "Theory X about engine oil is correct! " User B says: "Theory Y about engine oil is correct! "
Who´s right?
These engine bearing calculations are spot on with the ones of my car and Motorcycle manufacturers, i have checked and compared the clearances and oil reccomendations given in the OEM shop manuals i have. But there is not a single 0w-40 oil reccomended.
k1technologies.com
And again, there are no 0w- oils for Motorcycle around. Why? If 0w- oil is the best thing for sporty used, high reving engines? Why?
"But Porsche uses 0w-40!" Yes. But: My car reaches piston speed of up to 25 Meters / Second, wich equals 85 ft/s. How high is the piston speed in these Porsches? Serious Question!
But yeah, Racing team XY and Car manufacturer AB uses 0w-40. who is right? Nobody here pays me for rebuilding my engine if something get´s wrong. And the more you read here, the more confusing and cumberosme it becomes. And, racing teams usually check and rebuild engines, wich i dont do, and they get the oil for free.
I switch to "Only read" mode for the next months. Thank you all for your help and the polite discussion!
You want to learn soemthing new. Example: You read something like "Dont use Diesel oils in Gasoline engines" and the information there reads sound. And along come a Member and tells you: "No, this Information is wrong , because the author was biased."
And now you sit in front of th the screen and think: Who is right?
User A Says: "Theory X about engine oil is correct! " User B says: "Theory Y about engine oil is correct! "
Who´s right?
These engine bearing calculations are spot on with the ones of my car and Motorcycle manufacturers, i have checked and compared the clearances and oil reccomendations given in the OEM shop manuals i have. But there is not a single 0w-40 oil reccomended.
Bearing Clearance And Oil Viscosity Explained | K1 Technologies
The relationship between bearing clearance and oil viscosity is a delicate balance. Read on for more information on how to get it right!There are some fairly
k1technologies.com
And again, there are no 0w- oils for Motorcycle around. Why? If 0w- oil is the best thing for sporty used, high reving engines? Why?
"But Porsche uses 0w-40!" Yes. But: My car reaches piston speed of up to 25 Meters / Second, wich equals 85 ft/s. How high is the piston speed in these Porsches? Serious Question!
But yeah, Racing team XY and Car manufacturer AB uses 0w-40. who is right? Nobody here pays me for rebuilding my engine if something get´s wrong. And the more you read here, the more confusing and cumberosme it becomes. And, racing teams usually check and rebuild engines, wich i dont do, and they get the oil for free.
I switch to "Only read" mode for the next months. Thank you all for your help and the polite discussion!
My guess is that there really isn't a market for such oils in the motorbike world. What do snowmobiles run?Reading through this forum is sometimes cumbersome.
You want to learn soemthing new. Example: You read something like "Dont use Diesel oils in Gasoline engines" and the information there reads sound. And along come a Member and tells you: "No, this Information is wrong , because the author was biased."
And now you sit in front of th the screen and think: Who is right?
User A Says: "Theory X about engine oil is correct! " User B says: "Theory Y about engine oil is correct! "
Who´s right?
These engine bearing calculations are spot on with the ones of my car and Motorcycle manufacturers, i have checked and compared the clearances and oil reccomendations given in the OEM shop manuals i have. But there is not a single 0w-40 oil reccomended.
Bearing Clearance And Oil Viscosity Explained | K1 Technologies
The relationship between bearing clearance and oil viscosity is a delicate balance. Read on for more information on how to get it right!There are some fairly
And again, there are no 0w- oils for Motorcycle around. Why? If 0w- oil is the best thing for sporty used, high reving engines? Why?
"But Porsche uses 0w-40!" Yes. But: My car reaches piston speed of up to 25 Meters / Second, wich equals 85 ft/s. How high is the piston speed in these Porsches? Serious Question!
But yeah, Racing team XY and Car manufacturer AB uses 0w-40. who is right? Nobody here pays me for rebuilding my engine if something get´s wrong. And the more you read here, the more confusing and cumberosme it becomes. And, racing teams usually check and rebuild engines, wich i dont do, and they get the oil for free.
I switch to "Only read" mode for the next months. Thank you all for your help and the polite discussion!
In any case from tables I've seen on this site generally speaking one can use less VII for a 10w vs 0w but you can't assume one 10w has less VII compared to other 10w.. There are so many components companies can play with in order to reach a desired HTHS at a price point.
As for piston speed than easy calculation (stroke x rpm), but I would think a motorbike is going to be on avg much faster.
Note: A quick search yielded 24m/sec for the 4.0 GT3. It's a screamer and I guess why I enjoy watching them run on the track.
OVERKILL
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I'm saying that for the particular base oils above, that the number beside the name of the base oil is its thickness. Since the percentages of those base oils is provided in the blend, you can calculate the base oil viscosity of those specific oils, which I did, and listed them for you.
That's what I provided you with, the thickness of just the base oils without any VII's. This was easy to calculate because I have the data sheets for those base oils and we have the percentages either listed directly, or able to be derived from what is listed, in the data.
Your latter bit is why I brought up the Noack and flashpoints for those base oils.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
They run 0W-40, I provided a couple of examples from both BRP and Yamaha earlier in the thread. Same goes with ATV's. I noted in an earlier response that these pieces of equipment are operated when the 0W-xx may be of value, that's not the case for a bike, so what would be the point?
Exactly!
But, engines from that time were recommended for 15W40 and 10W40 bcs. that was some happy medium HTHS wise, shear wise etc. ANY 0W40 or 30 today is more shear stable.
And which exactly 10W40 are you talking today? Motul 300V? Redline? Mobil1 HM? They all come with baggage. And you still don’t know are they more shear stable. We have here UOA of Motul 300V 0W40 in Corvette tgat did numerous track days and 5k run, without any meaningful shearing.
For this engine, ANY, ABSOLUTELY ANY, LL01 or MB229.5 oil available in Wal Mart improvement that can’t be quantified over what was recommended.
Have you ever seen (or even heard of) someone starting and riding a motorcycle at -35*C? There’s no market for it, plus, since many motorcycles are shared sump, a 0wXX oil will most times need a healthy dose of VIIs to achieve both 0wXX and Xw40/50 ratings. If you’ve been paying attention, you’ll have noticed that most VIIs are quite suceptible to mechanical shear; a motorcycle gearbox is mechanical shear’s playground, I.e., all those VIIs will have a very hard, short life in a shared sump and oil performance will suffer heavily in very short mileage, leaving the oil out of grade and not protecting the engine OR the gearbox adequately.
This is why you don’t see anyone wasting time on 0wXX motorcycle oils, IMHO.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Yup, and snowmobile's and ATV's typically (but not always) have CVT's nowadays, so no shared gearbox really to speak of.Have you ever seen (or even heard of) someone starting and riding a motorcycle at -35*C? There’s no market for it, plus, since many motorcycles are shared sump, a 0wXX oil will most times need a healthy dose of VIIs to achieve both 0wXX and Xw40/50 ratings. If you’ve been paying attention, you’ll have noticed that most VIIs are quite suceptible to mechanical shear; a motorcycle gearbox is mechanical shear’s playground, I.e., all those VIIs will have a very hard, short life in a shared sump and oil performance will suffer heavily in very short mileage, leaving the oil out of grade and not protecting the engine OR the gearbox adequately.
This is why you don’t see anyone wasting time on 0wXX motorcycle oils, IMHO.
My old Suzuki 250 (now belonging to my son) has M1 0W-40 in it though. Would be far better than any 10W-40 that was made back in 1987.
One point of contention: You don't use VII's to achieve the 0W-xx, that's a function of the base oil and PPD's. But you do need to VII's to make the spread to the hot visc. All things equal, the wider the spread, the lower the base oil viscosity needs to be. But of course all things are never equal and typically you can get away with cheaper bases with a narrower spread, so the base oil visc doesn't end up being much higher like one would assume.
IMO, if a "Diesel" engine oil meets an API gasoline approval such as SN, or motorcycle approvals such as MA or MA2, they are OK for use in high rpm applications.
I don't know anyone riding their motorcycles at -35C, so 5W and 0W winter grades are not needed and IMO not desired because of the low base oil viscosity required in the blending of these oils.
In racing, the oil is changed after every race and sometimes the engines are rebuilt. Evidence of the success of XXX engine oil in competition does not necessarily indicate that engine oil XXX is the correct choice for daily transportation applications. High performance or otherwise.
You've indicated that the winter grade of 10W is sufficient for your lowest ambient temperature. The cold cranking pass for 10W is -25C,
cold flow & pumping is -30C. An expensive VM free mPAO engine oil that passes 10W40, must be labeled either 10W40 or SAE 40.
From your posts, I believe that the viscosity profile of Mobil 10W40 motorcycle oil, API SN, MA, MA2 is what you're looking for.
I'll guess the HTHS @ >3.9, as it's not published. The ZDDP level is good enough for engine protection without emission control system damage. Because it's not friction modified, you may lose 2% fuel efficiency compared to an automotive engine oil of the same viscosity.
The industrial application of your thesis are wet clutch compatible Caterpillar drive train oils (TO-4, TO-4M).Have you ever seen (or even heard of) someone starting and riding a motorcycle at -35*C? There’s no market for it, plus, since many motorcycles are shared sump, a 0wXX oil will most times need a healthy dose of VIIs to achieve both 0wXX and Xw40/50 ratings. If you’ve been paying attention, you’ll have noticed that most VIIs are quite suceptible to mechanical shear; a motorcycle gearbox is mechanical shear’s playground, I.e., all those VIIs will have a very hard, short life in a shared sump and oil performance will suffer heavily in very short mileage, leaving the oil out of grade and not protecting the engine OR the gearbox adequately.
This is why you don’t see anyone wasting time on 0wXX motorcycle oils, IMHO.
Synthetic VM free multi viscosity variants such as Chevron's TorqForce MP barely passes 15W40 and TorqForce syn 5w30.
Not published, those critters pass API CD and worked fine for me in dirt bikes and old pickup trucks.
The downside, expensive and only available in pails 'n drums.
Yeah, they sound amazing. People forget this because the power output wasn’t stratospheric, but the BMW S54 actually has a 91mm stroke and with 8k max it has slightly higher piston speed at 24.26 m/s.
I posted a Picture of the oil i am talking about here and wich i am using allready in my car.
Posting Nr. 51
Data sheet:
To make it clear, again: This oil is in the enigne of my car. That is the oil i wich am using. That is what i am talking about.
Posting Nr. 51
Data sheet:
To make it clear, again: This oil is in the enigne of my car. That is the oil i wich am using. That is what i am talking about.
Why would anyone use that oil on the street?
What is the benefit? What is the oxidation of that oil?
I personally would use that oil in a heartbeat on the track. But on the street, not sure why would anyone bend backward to get it when we really do not know anything that that oil would yield after 5-7.5k use on the street.
Why what? Before we learn why, we have to know the question.
Ohkay....
According to BITOG, i should use a Diesel Truck Oil in a gasoline Car or even Motorcyle, wich is O.K. Dont care about the approvals.
But...
Using a High-performance Gasoline Racing oil designed for cars in a car on the street is a no-no. Because it dont carry approvals.
Have i understand it?
My car suffers from cam chain wear. The chain lenghts, then the cam chain tensioner can´t hold tension, and you have a rattling noise.
There was a poll amongst the members in the german forum.
The only two guys wich dont had problems used the Motul 300 V Racing oil for cars, with the extra load of Moly. And the had more milege on the cars as avergae, to. All others used over the shelf oils, PAO, with a lot of approvals, even the porsche A40.
Seems like the oil with the better additive pack protects better, no matter wiche approvals it carrys. Coincidence?
And, the last thing:
If i use a 10w-40 high quality PAO oil in a car wich is driven hard, High RPM, heat, Piston speed and
If i use a 0w-40 high quality PAO oil in a car wich is driven hard, High RPM, heat, Piston speed.
Could it be that the 10w- has a little edge in Protection because the oil film strenght dont rely on VI Improvers?
That´s what i am talking about here. But it looks like nobody understand me or could answer my question.
And yes, Mobil 1 0w-40 is a outstanding, prooven, high quality oil, no doubt.
According to BITOG, i should use a Diesel Truck Oil in a gasoline Car or even Motorcyle, wich is O.K. Dont care about the approvals.
But...
Using a High-performance Gasoline Racing oil designed for cars in a car on the street is a no-no. Because it dont carry approvals.
Have i understand it?
My car suffers from cam chain wear. The chain lenghts, then the cam chain tensioner can´t hold tension, and you have a rattling noise.
There was a poll amongst the members in the german forum.
The only two guys wich dont had problems used the Motul 300 V Racing oil for cars, with the extra load of Moly. And the had more milege on the cars as avergae, to. All others used over the shelf oils, PAO, with a lot of approvals, even the porsche A40.
Seems like the oil with the better additive pack protects better, no matter wiche approvals it carrys. Coincidence?
And, the last thing:
If i use a 10w-40 high quality PAO oil in a car wich is driven hard, High RPM, heat, Piston speed and
If i use a 0w-40 high quality PAO oil in a car wich is driven hard, High RPM, heat, Piston speed.
Could it be that the 10w- has a little edge in Protection because the oil film strenght dont rely on VI Improvers?
That´s what i am talking about here. But it looks like nobody understand me or could answer my question.
And yes, Mobil 1 0w-40 is a outstanding, prooven, high quality oil, no doubt.
I am not sure you picked up arguments very well.
But you are involved in a lot of “whataboutism.”
As far as I am concerned, you can use Olive oil with addition of that Liqui Moly from 1997.
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