Tungsten, gold and platinum may not show up in a voa, unless they are looking for it.The LM "Synthoil High tech" is PAO, for sure.
https://www.liqui-moly.com/en/synthoil-high-tech-5w-40-p000339.html#1855
Most others from LM are HC, Gropup III.
It´s a good habbit to buy Products made in your Country, i try the same here, if possible.
At the moment, i favour ROWE from all german Oils. Als UOAs of ROWE oils where very good.
LM is decent quality, best selling oil here in German since years.
Ravenol had more then once problems. Latley a UOA in the German Oil Forum showed that their top-racing product oil was missing the heavily advertised tungsten completly.... go figure.
High quality 5W40 for BMW
- Thread starter sfbmw
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Quaker State Euro 5W-40,
$22 and change, Wal-Mart…
BMW LL-01 approved…
$22 and change, Wal-Mart…
BMW LL-01 approved…
No LM that has current approvals is PAO.The LM "Synthoil High tech" is PAO, for sure.
https://www.liqui-moly.com/en/synthoil-high-tech-5w-40-p000339.html#1855
Most others from LM are HC, Gropup III.
It´s a good habbit to buy Products made in your Country, i try the same here, if possible.
At the moment, i favour ROWE from all german Oils. Als UOAs of ROWE oils where very good.
LM is decent quality, best selling oil here in German since years.
Ravenol had more then once problems. Latley a UOA in the German Oil Forum showed that their top-racing product oil was missing the heavily advertised tungsten completly.... go figure.
That is OLD formula. It is so old that most oils at that time having those approvals had much more PAO or Ester.
Liqui Moly is company that made huge marketing out of Hydrocracked technology. Remember that almost all of their bottles in the end of 90’s had HC Technology labels, like that is some add on performance.
The Synthoil 5w40 and 10w60 are still mostly PAO, otherwise they would not be sold in Germany as Vollsyntetisch.
And here in Europe , the Synthoil 5w40 can also be found "in disguise" , in the form of Meguin Super Leichtlauf 5W-40 ( Meguin is owned by LM ) , for a much better price
You really hate LM, dont you?
Yes, the synthoil is "dated", but neverthelss a good oil, real PAO and a good add pack. VOA:
Liqui Moly Synthoil High Tech 5W-40 - Ölanalysen und Ölanalytik für Motor und Getriebe
Viskosität bei 100 °C: 13,98 - das Motoröl entspricht den SAE40-Grenzwerten Viskositätsindex: 176 TBN: 8,91 – wenig für fullSAPS Sulfatasche 1,13 – wenig für das Additivpaket, sehr gut Pourpoint: -38 – gut Flammpunkt: 235 – gut CCS: 3658 – entspricht 5w,…
oil-club.de
Marketing... What about Motul wich sold HC oil as PAO in Germany? Thats not merketing, that was simply fraud.
But Motul get prasied her constantly for their "Fullsynth Ester oil". Go figure. That is marketing!
The OP want a oil wich carrys the old BMW LL98 and LL01 approvals, PAO preferd. The LM fits the bill. Also does the ROWE:
VOA: https://oil-club.de/index.php?thread/1948-rowe-hightec-synth-rs-5w-40/
LL98 was relegated to the dust bin decades ago. Any 5w40 with the LL01 specification will be exponentially better than what LL98 had to offer almost 30 years ago.
Remember an oil is a blend of various base oils, additives, etc. For example PAO has great cold weather properties but poor seal compatibility which is why it's blended with something else. . HC/SHC (Severe hydrocracked aka Group 3(3+)) can meet or exceed the capabilities of PAO in some applications. Basically what I'm saying is that final blended product is what matters.
The majors offer great products at low prices. Mobil 1, Castrol, Shell (aka Pennzoil, Quaker State).
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So, your argument is: yes, LM is shady, but look, others are too?You really hate LM, dont you?
Yes, the synthoil is "dated", but neverthelss a good oil, real PAO and a good add pack. VOA:
Liqui Moly Synthoil High Tech 5W-40 - Ölanalysen und Ölanalytik für Motor und Getriebe
Viskosität bei 100 °C: 13,98 - das Motoröl entspricht den SAE40-Grenzwerten Viskositätsindex: 176 TBN: 8,91 – wenig für fullSAPS Sulfatasche 1,13 – wenig für das Additivpaket, sehr gut Pourpoint: -38 – gut Flammpunkt: 235 – gut CCS: 3658 – entspricht 5w,…
Marketing... What about Motul wich sold HC oil as PAO in Germany? Thats not merketing, that was simply fraud.
But Motul get prasied her constantly for their "Fullsynth Ester oil". Go figure. That is marketing!
The OP want a oil wich carrys the old BMW LL98 and LL01 approvals, PAO preferd. The LM fits the bill. Also does the ROWE:
VOA: https://oil-club.de/index.php?thread/1948-rowe-hightec-synth-rs-5w-40/
Every single Euro oil on the shelves in Wal mart is better than that Liqui Moly.
Also, a lot of synthetic oils from 1970's had high PAO and Ester %. Would you use it in B58?
@ edyvw: You dont like LM, i dont like Motul.
We both have reasons for our opinion. It´s so easy. Peace.
We both have reasons for our opinion. It´s so easy. Peace.
@ChristianReske The ROWE oil looks interesting. Can be had for reasonable prices through ECS compared to the Redline stuff I was eyeing.
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This one:
oil-club.de
This oil is Fully synth, mainly PAO. And it is really well liked in the german oil Club forum.
Some UOA:
oil-club.de
oil-club.de
oil-club.de
oil-club.de
oil-club.de
oil-club.de
...and so on.. you could do your own search:
oil-club.de
Rowe Hightec Synth RS 5W-40 - Ölanalysen und Ölanalytik für Motor und Getriebe
--> Hier geht es zum Meinungsaustausch [URL:https://oil-club.de/index.php?thread/658-hightec-synth-rs-sae-5w-40/] <--
oil-club.de
This oil is Fully synth, mainly PAO. And it is really well liked in the german oil Club forum.
Some UOA:
Rowe Hightec Synth RS 5W40 - Alfa 166 2.4 JTDm 20V - 8194km - Ölanalysen und Ölanalytik für Motor und Getriebe
Hier die Analyse vom Alfa 166 Diesel 5-Zylinder von meinem Vater. Fahrprofil für einen Diesel leider sehr suboptimal. Fast jeden Tag Kurzstrecke in der Stadt mit ca. 3-5km. Mehrmals jährlich gibt es aber auch Langstrecken (je 300-500km), wo auch mal…
oil-club.de
ROWE SYNTH RS 5W-40 - 991 turbo - 3.000km - keine Trackdays - Ölanalysen und Ölanalytik für Motor und Getriebe
Zeige Euch diese GöA aus 3 Gründen… obwohl ich weiß, dass Ihr lieber immer mehr Kilometer habt. Aber zur besseren Vergleichbarkeit fand ich es interessant. Zum einen war es nur sehr sportliche Landstraße und Autobahn und kein TrackDay, im Vergleich zur…
oil-club.de
Rowe Synth RS 5W40 - BMW E90 335i xDrive N54B30 - 7.400 Km - Ölanalysen und Ölanalytik für Motor und Getriebe
Hallo zusammen, die nächste Analyse ist da :) Fahrprofil ist gleich geblieben, allerdings ist jetzt die Stage 2+ drauf. Das heißt: - das Auto hat jetzt MHD Stage 2+ mit ca 420ps anstatt 360 und 650Nm statt 550 (Werte Stage 1+) - eher mittlere…
oil-club.de
Rowe Synth RS 5W-40 - BMW 325i E90 N52 - 13.600km/192h - Ölanalysen und Ölanalytik für Motor und Getriebe
Betriebsstunden: 192 h Odometer: 266.077 km Benzin: 1.063l, Verbrauch 7,8l/100km, durchschn. Geschwindigkeit 71km/h Nachfüllmenge: 4,0l Additive: 0,5l Next Lubricants 502 - POE 100 1,0l Fuchs Reniso Triton SEZ 68 0,3l Liqui Moly 3721 Cera Tec…
oil-club.de
Rowe Synth RS 5W-40 - Volkswagen Polo 6R 1.4 CGGB - 11.730km - Ölanalysen und Ölanalytik für Motor und Getriebe
Moin oil-club1 , dank sei einer super Aktion von Aetvyn ( :check: ) habe ich zusätzlich zur GÖA meines Schönwetterfahrzeugs [URL:https://oil-club.de/index.php?thread/10008-rowe-synth-rs-5w-40-mercedes-benz-e500-coupe-m273-7-473km/] auch eine Probe…
oil-club.de
Rowe Synth RS 5W40 - Audi RS3 DAZA - 5200km - Ölanalysen und Ölanalytik für Motor und Getriebe
Hallo zusammen, da ich Aufgrund meiner letzten Analysen etwas Vorsichtig geworden bin, hatte ich mich eigentlich innerlich auf den nächsten Ölwechsel eingestellt und eine Zwischenanalyse gemacht. Jetzt bleibt es wohl noch etwas drin :check: Kurz…
oil-club.de
...and so on.. you could do your own search:
5w-40 - Ölanalysen und Ölanalytik für Motor und Getriebe
Diskussionsforum: Ölanalysen und Ölanalytik für Motor und Getriebe
oil-club.de
The only source I'm aware of in the US has it advertised as HC base oilThis one:
Rowe Hightec Synth RS 5W-40 - Ölanalysen und Ölanalytik für Motor und Getriebe
--> Hier geht es zum Meinungsaustausch [URL:https://oil-club.de/index.php?thread/658-hightec-synth-rs-sae-5w-40/] <--
This oil is Fully synth, mainly PAO. And it is really well liked in the german oil Club forum.
Some UOA:
Rowe Hightec Synth RS 5W40 - Alfa 166 2.4 JTDm 20V - 8194km - Ölanalysen und Ölanalytik für Motor und Getriebe
Hier die Analyse vom Alfa 166 Diesel 5-Zylinder von meinem Vater. Fahrprofil für einen Diesel leider sehr suboptimal. Fast jeden Tag Kurzstrecke in der Stadt mit ca. 3-5km. Mehrmals jährlich gibt es aber auch Langstrecken (je 300-500km), wo auch mal…ROWE SYNTH RS 5W-40 - 991 turbo - 3.000km - keine Trackdays - Ölanalysen und Ölanalytik für Motor und Getriebe
Zeige Euch diese GöA aus 3 Gründen… obwohl ich weiß, dass Ihr lieber immer mehr Kilometer habt. Aber zur besseren Vergleichbarkeit fand ich es interessant. Zum einen war es nur sehr sportliche Landstraße und Autobahn und kein TrackDay, im Vergleich zur…Rowe Synth RS 5W40 - BMW E90 335i xDrive N54B30 - 7.400 Km - Ölanalysen und Ölanalytik für Motor und Getriebe
Hallo zusammen, die nächste Analyse ist da :) Fahrprofil ist gleich geblieben, allerdings ist jetzt die Stage 2+ drauf. Das heißt: - das Auto hat jetzt MHD Stage 2+ mit ca 420ps anstatt 360 und 650Nm statt 550 (Werte Stage 1+) - eher mittlere…Rowe Synth RS 5W-40 - BMW 325i E90 N52 - 13.600km/192h - Ölanalysen und Ölanalytik für Motor und Getriebe
Betriebsstunden: 192 h Odometer: 266.077 km Benzin: 1.063l, Verbrauch 7,8l/100km, durchschn. Geschwindigkeit 71km/h Nachfüllmenge: 4,0l Additive: 0,5l Next Lubricants 502 - POE 100 1,0l Fuchs Reniso Triton SEZ 68 0,3l Liqui Moly 3721 Cera Tec…Rowe Synth RS 5W-40 - Volkswagen Polo 6R 1.4 CGGB - 11.730km - Ölanalysen und Ölanalytik für Motor und Getriebe
Moin oil-club1 , dank sei einer super Aktion von Aetvyn ( :check: ) habe ich zusätzlich zur GÖA meines Schönwetterfahrzeugs [URL:https://oil-club.de/index.php?thread/10008-rowe-synth-rs-5w-40-mercedes-benz-e500-coupe-m273-7-473km/] auch eine Probe…Rowe Synth RS 5W40 - Audi RS3 DAZA - 5200km - Ölanalysen und Ölanalytik für Motor und Getriebe
Hallo zusammen, da ich Aufgrund meiner letzten Analysen etwas Vorsichtig geworden bin, hatte ich mich eigentlich innerlich auf den nächsten Ölwechsel eingestellt und eine Zwischenanalyse gemacht. Jetzt bleibt es wohl noch etwas drin :check: Kurz…
...and so on.. you could do your own search:
5w-40 - Ölanalysen und Ölanalytik für Motor und Getriebe
Diskussionsforum: Ölanalysen und Ölanalytik für Motor und Getriebe
https://www.ecstuning.com/b-rowe-parts/hightec-synt-rs-engine-oil-5w-40-5-liter/21063-538-03~row/
****.... do they have "Downgraded" it for Export? At least they are Honest about the HC content.
Here is a member, called "Rowe us" or so. Ask them about it.
Rowe has a US distributor, to my knowledge.
Os simply send a mail to Rowe: https://www.rowe-oil.com/en
EDIT: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/members/rowemotoroilusa.95068/
Send this member a message. He maybe has a answer.
Here is a member, called "Rowe us" or so. Ask them about it.
Rowe has a US distributor, to my knowledge.
Os simply send a mail to Rowe: https://www.rowe-oil.com/en
EDIT: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/members/rowemotoroilusa.95068/
Send this member a message. He maybe has a answer.
Not to get completely off topic, but you do know that UOAs are not the proper tool to assess how well it’s protecting your engine, right? You may gather some trends and assess if it’s wearing similarly to other engines in that family, but it will usually not show impending doom or other severe damage. Plus, you need more than just a handful of samples before you can really trend the “happy zone” for your engine.This one:
Rowe Hightec Synth RS 5W-40 - Ölanalysen und Ölanalytik für Motor und Getriebe
--> Hier geht es zum Meinungsaustausch [URL:https://oil-club.de/index.php?thread/658-hightec-synth-rs-sae-5w-40/] <--
This oil is Fully synth, mainly PAO. And it is really well liked in the german oil Club forum.
Some UOA:
Rowe Hightec Synth RS 5W40 - Alfa 166 2.4 JTDm 20V - 8194km - Ölanalysen und Ölanalytik für Motor und Getriebe
Hier die Analyse vom Alfa 166 Diesel 5-Zylinder von meinem Vater. Fahrprofil für einen Diesel leider sehr suboptimal. Fast jeden Tag Kurzstrecke in der Stadt mit ca. 3-5km. Mehrmals jährlich gibt es aber auch Langstrecken (je 300-500km), wo auch mal…ROWE SYNTH RS 5W-40 - 991 turbo - 3.000km - keine Trackdays - Ölanalysen und Ölanalytik für Motor und Getriebe
Zeige Euch diese GöA aus 3 Gründen… obwohl ich weiß, dass Ihr lieber immer mehr Kilometer habt. Aber zur besseren Vergleichbarkeit fand ich es interessant. Zum einen war es nur sehr sportliche Landstraße und Autobahn und kein TrackDay, im Vergleich zur…Rowe Synth RS 5W40 - BMW E90 335i xDrive N54B30 - 7.400 Km - Ölanalysen und Ölanalytik für Motor und Getriebe
Hallo zusammen, die nächste Analyse ist da :) Fahrprofil ist gleich geblieben, allerdings ist jetzt die Stage 2+ drauf. Das heißt: - das Auto hat jetzt MHD Stage 2+ mit ca 420ps anstatt 360 und 650Nm statt 550 (Werte Stage 1+) - eher mittlere…Rowe Synth RS 5W-40 - BMW 325i E90 N52 - 13.600km/192h - Ölanalysen und Ölanalytik für Motor und Getriebe
Betriebsstunden: 192 h Odometer: 266.077 km Benzin: 1.063l, Verbrauch 7,8l/100km, durchschn. Geschwindigkeit 71km/h Nachfüllmenge: 4,0l Additive: 0,5l Next Lubricants 502 - POE 100 1,0l Fuchs Reniso Triton SEZ 68 0,3l Liqui Moly 3721 Cera Tec…Rowe Synth RS 5W-40 - Volkswagen Polo 6R 1.4 CGGB - 11.730km - Ölanalysen und Ölanalytik für Motor und Getriebe
Moin oil-club1 , dank sei einer super Aktion von Aetvyn ( :check: ) habe ich zusätzlich zur GÖA meines Schönwetterfahrzeugs [URL:https://oil-club.de/index.php?thread/10008-rowe-synth-rs-5w-40-mercedes-benz-e500-coupe-m273-7-473km/] auch eine Probe…Rowe Synth RS 5W40 - Audi RS3 DAZA - 5200km - Ölanalysen und Ölanalytik für Motor und Getriebe
Hallo zusammen, da ich Aufgrund meiner letzten Analysen etwas Vorsichtig geworden bin, hatte ich mich eigentlich innerlich auf den nächsten Ölwechsel eingestellt und eine Zwischenanalyse gemacht. Jetzt bleibt es wohl noch etwas drin :check: Kurz…
...and so on.. you could do your own search:
5w-40 - Ölanalysen und Ölanalytik für Motor und Getriebe
Diskussionsforum: Ölanalysen und Ölanalytik für Motor und Getriebe
Many people these days change oil brands too often to really get statistically significant trends; maybe @dnewton3 could chime in since he’s likely the most experienced and least emotional about correlating what a UOA can actually tell us.
OP, any oil that meets the spec should be delivering statistically similar results for wear (because it’s meeting a given spec), but oil choice should be driven by it being in grade spec and having some residual TBN at the end of the given OCI. If both answers are not yes, either OCI must be shortened, a different oil must be chosen, or both.
There is no liking or not liking.@ edyvw: You dont like LM, i dont like Motul.
We both have reasons for our opinion. It´s so easy. Peace.
LM you put somehow still carries LL-98. BMW doesn’t even approve oils for that for a long time.
Other oils, have LL-01.
Motul is not found in Wal Mart. I referred to other oils that are far superior, cheaper, and readily available.
Yes.
Surprise, Ravenol has Confessed that they run of tungsten in Production and used other Friction Modfifiers instead for a short time.
In their racing oil wich they advertise heavily as "With tungsten"
Posting. Nr. 84 here in this thread:
Ravenol RUP Racing 5W-40 - 3.0TFSI Audi S4 B9 - 7.000 km - Ölanalysen und Ölanalytik für Motor und Getriebe
Hier die Analyse von meinem S4 mit dem RUP. Viel Langstrecke (2 Wochen Urlaub 3000km) und dann auch ein paar längere Fahrten. Jetzt die letzten Monate auch öfter mal eine Kurzstrecke. Denke mal mit etwas ausdampfen vorher, wäre der Kraftstoffgehalt…
oil-club.de
Posting Nr. 84 Translated:
"Hello everyone, the employee responsible is unfortunately still on sick leave (I really wish him a speedy recovery), but I was finally able to clarify the situation today: A few days in May 2022, due to supply difficulties, production actually had to resort to additional organic friction modifiers (OFMs - Organic Friction Modifiers) (such as N-tallow-alkyltrimethylenedi) instead of tungsten. The OFMs are more expensive than metal-containing friction modifiers (such as tungsten, molybdenum and sometimes boron), but are very important and effective. This means that this bottling was in no way inferior in terms of friction properties, but was even higher quality and more expensive to produce. It concerns the following bottling at RUP: Bottling date: 05/30/2022 Batch number: W22007131 By the way, the third part of the video from full load deals exactly with the topic of friction modifier additives from minute 6:45. And at minute 7:45 the Alex also talks about the organic FMs. Here is the (very informative) video again: Video: Part 3/5 Motor Oil Additives So in the end it all looks more harmless than I thought. The unfortunate circumstance was that my contact person on the subject had been on sick leave for a long time. And they didn't want to disrupt the lines of communication"
Most members of the forum where not amused about this, thread was locked. You could translate the whole thread with Google translator and read the whole story.
The only PAO oil that fits the bill wich is left for the OP is Red Line, i assume.
Why not? A little bit expensive but it´s the "Real deal", PAO and ester.
Why not? A little bit expensive but it´s the "Real deal", PAO and ester.
Other than not having the name of the certification, what is wrong with the 5w40 Euro PCEO oil from HPL? It meets Daimler 229.5 which appears to meet/exceed every requirement of BMW LL-01, is certainly made with PAO (-71*F pour point), and I would bet money for 10 oil changes that HPL’s additives are higher quality and result in better engine protection than the competitors, including today’s Redline oils.
Since OPs engine is at least 2 decades out of warranty, what is the harm in using an oil that far exceeds the original requirements even though it doesn’t carry OEM approval? LL-01 wasn’t made from unicorn tears… That’s my $.02, anyways.
Attachments
I did, but the de "gschmackle" was not translated to an English adjective or verb. Does it mean that someone put their thumb in the soup?Yes.
Surprise, Ravenol has Confessed that they run of tungsten in Production and used other Friction Modfifiers instead for a short time.
In their racing oil wich they advertise heavily as "With tungsten"
Posting. Nr. 84 here in this thread:
Ravenol RUP Racing 5W-40 - 3.0TFSI Audi S4 B9 - 7.000 km - Ölanalysen und Ölanalytik für Motor und Getriebe
Hier die Analyse von meinem S4 mit dem RUP. Viel Langstrecke (2 Wochen Urlaub 3000km) und dann auch ein paar längere Fahrten. Jetzt die letzten Monate auch öfter mal eine Kurzstrecke. Denke mal mit etwas ausdampfen vorher, wäre der Kraftstoffgehalt…
Posting Nr. 84 Translated:
"Hello everyone, the employee responsible is unfortunately still on sick leave (I really wish him a speedy recovery), but I was finally able to clarify the situation today: A few days in May 2022, due to supply difficulties, production actually had to resort to additional organic friction modifiers (OFMs - Organic Friction Modifiers) (such as N-tallow-alkyltrimethylenedi) instead of tungsten. The OFMs are more expensive than metal-containing friction modifiers (such as tungsten, molybdenum and sometimes boron), but are very important and effective. This means that this bottling was in no way inferior in terms of friction properties, but was even higher quality and more expensive to produce. It concerns the following bottling at RUP: Bottling date: 05/30/2022 Batch number: W22007131 By the way, the third part of the video from full load deals exactly with the topic of friction modifier additives from minute 6:45. And at minute 7:45 the Alex also talks about the organic FMs. Here is the (very informative) video again: Video: Part 3/5 Motor Oil Additives So in the end it all looks more harmless than I thought. The unfortunate circumstance was that my contact person on the subject had been on sick leave for a long time. And they didn't want to disrupt the lines of communication"
Most members of the forum where not amused about this, thread was locked. You could translate the whole thread with Google translator and read the whole story.
Last edited:
Sounds like a great product! Similar price and performance to Redline. i had no prior knowledge of HPL’s reputation, hence why I never mentioned it.
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