You do realize he's in Europe right?
High quality 5W40 for BMW
- Thread starter sfbmw
- Start date
Amsoil also makes one. Those are the only two I know of. I would call that "uncommon". Can he even get either where he is? I seem to recall he's in Europe.
I would guess that synthetic HDEO 15w40s are VII free, or very close if not.
Why is a PAO base stock so bloody important?
Snob factor?
Why is a PAO base stock so bloody important?
Snob factor?
Yep. Europe can put up or shut up
Huh? I don't think he can easily get HPL there was the point so why keep recommending it?
Huh? Do you want to turn this into a personal conversation topic?
No need, unless you want to chat
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Whether he can specifically procure an oil with no VII in it is entirely separate from the fact that Honda didn't spec one. They didn't spec anything exotic at all, just a plane Jane API 10W-30 or 5W-40, both of which would have considerable VII content.
This whole conversation (low VII content) hinges on a concern that the manufacturer of the equipment didn't have.
This whole conversation (low VII content) hinges on a concern that the manufacturer of the equipment didn't have.
And it is just digging random holes one after the other.
So the no-VII HPL thread...how does that work as I don't know of any manufacturer that has a spec for no-VII oil yet we have an entire thread of folks, like the poster in question, that think they need to run it for whatever reason (and who am I to judge what folks want to run in their vehicles and for what reason)?
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
It was an exercise to create a product that there was demand for here on the forum. It fills a niche.
I'm not running it, if that wasn't obvious, as I like having a 0W-xx Winter grade due to my climate.
You are asking a question to which the answer is implicitly rhetorical (how does that work?). A gaggle of gents fawning over the idea of a unicorn and a capable and generous blender actually taking the time to run with the idea cannot be extrapolated to address, in any manner, the point I've made about Honda and what they spec for the vehicle nor the perceived issue with piston speed that the poster I was addressing has.
Understanding the allure of an oil blended with no VII's doesn't require one to abandon the knowledge that this is not in any way, shape, or form, necessary. It's like understanding that you can make a sold 0W-xx without PAO, and it will still pass all the performance requirements mandated by the OEM's.
What does it do for you?
I just don't understand sometimes. If you want a true 40 grade after shear while using a "street" oil (why? unless you are tracking and in that case just use a proper racing 40 like 300V or Redline or something) then just use the 5w50. It's not that hard.
Hey @Foxtrot08 do you have some wisdom to share with this gent re: racing oils in street use? He’s willing to trust some unknown wanker on the help line who may or may not know a thing about real world applications and requirements. Maybe some input from an experienced chap like yourself can help his knowledge?
Typically, racing oils have less detergents in them. Because there is very little need for them in the scheme of racing engines. As for using 0w40 - that is already being covered in the thread. The argument for and against VII's is already happening. Personally, to me, it doesn't matter. You're not going to see a B10 of engine failures increase because of VII usage, but you can see shorter oil life. But I'm not going to get into that disagreement again.
For racing oils, in engines - if you're actually tracking the vehicle, using it as a track vehicle, you're probably going to see a mechanical failure before your engine gunks up. You're also going to be changing your oil more often, due to the higher heat, oxidation, etc. So you don't really need a full detergent oil. Aircraft engines are the same way, very little detergents because they're going to get rebuilt before they actually gunk up.
Now, why 10w40 vs 0w40 is an interesting argument, because you're getting more into the realm of politics and economics vs oil design.
The majority of the globes motor cycle sales happen in Asian countries. China, Indonesia, Vietnam, India, etc. APAC countries represent 57% of motorcycle/scooter purchases. With Europe #2 at 14.3% and Latin America at 13.7% of sales.
Motorcycle designers are going to spec oils that are available and cost effective in those markets. To export US/Euro base stocks to the APAC countries, cost money. Those countries are also lower income than N. American / Euro markets. So, they can't afford full synthetics that are super expensive, most of the time on those markets. So the oil companies have to use 1. Locally supplied base stocks. 2. Locally supplied additive packages. Most of the time you're looking at older, lower VI base oils. Which means you're going to also be using older, more 'simple' additive packages, with those base oils. Thus, why you see 10w40's and 10w30's more - they're bluntly, cheaper to make, thus - lower costs for their consumers.
Motorcycle engine designs in those countries, really haven't changed much in 50-60 years either. No emission standards, no fuel economy standards, with a population that wants a lower cost, machine. That isn't looking for the performance like Euro countries or N. America really. Plus, they're far more apt at rebuilding engines. Higher revving? Yes, but also generally lower powered. The majority of bikes sold are under 40HP in those countries.
So you're really looking at just older engine technology, matched with older oil technology.
Thanks Fox!
Poor OP 
Why Poor OP? There’s some dickering but there is a lot of info here that OP probably didn’t even know to ask about.Poor OP
I get it, but…
O.K.
So, modern superbikes like a Suzuki GSXR 1000, a Honda CBR Fireblade, A BMW S1000 R, a Kawasaki ZX 10 Ninja wich delivers over 200 HP from 1 Liter displacment at 14.000 RPM and use Fully Synthetic PAO motorcycle 10w-40 oils (And no 0w-40) are
" older engine technology, matched with older oil technology."
Yes, sure...
The point that racing oils have less detergents was also part of the phone call between me and the Rowe technican. But thnaks for reminding me. Again.
I am off for Ski holliday, it´s better for all i think. Every discussion cames to a point where people start to chaime in but dont have read all pages before. And that is when things become really cumbersome.
Bye!
So, modern superbikes like a Suzuki GSXR 1000, a Honda CBR Fireblade, A BMW S1000 R, a Kawasaki ZX 10 Ninja wich delivers over 200 HP from 1 Liter displacment at 14.000 RPM and use Fully Synthetic PAO motorcycle 10w-40 oils (And no 0w-40) are
" older engine technology, matched with older oil technology."
Yes, sure...The point that racing oils have less detergents was also part of the phone call between me and the Rowe technican. But thnaks for reminding me. Again.
I am off for Ski holliday, it´s better for all i think. Every discussion cames to a point where people start to chaime in but dont have read all pages before. And that is when things become really cumbersome.
Bye!
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