It may be but I'm interested in trying the HPL as they are a forum sponsor and well-respected forum gurus are here supporting them.
High Performance Lubricants Euro oils...whose going to try it?
- Thread starter TiGeo
- Start date
Interesting. I wonder why that is.
Yes my grocery getter Atlas is far from "high performance" lol. It just passed 10k miles and usually just goes on trips around town and an occasional long highway trip. Due to this I prefer a low SAPs oil and lower NOACK to possibly help with cbu. It always try to use the right spec of oil which the Ravenol carries and i would not hesitate to take advantage of the three dealer oil changes included with the vehicle.
The epc euro deal is intriguing but shipping the old oil back, I've done it once, is a slight pain in the rear.
Seven pages of discussion around how tall of a ladder one needs to get out of a 10- foot hole.
A 10-foot ladder will do (and you could probably get by with 8-foot if you're desperate).
Then the boutique guys pipe in and try to convince everyone that a 12-foot ladder is better and a 14-foot ladder is the best and a 16-foot ladder, golly gee, it must be amazing!!!
What gets lost in the discussion is that the requirement is to get out of the 10-foot hole.
Once that is accomplished, it is irrelevant how much taller the ladder is.
So whether something is boutique, or distilled from the tears of unicorns, or a bespoke blend made just especially of one customer, the job of the product is to perform per the requirements. Everything in excess of that is nebulous fluff, just like the marketing teams want it to be.
Could the boutique product perform better that something that just meets the spec? I suppose it possible, but it also begs the question of 'Who cares, given that the specifications are written to completely encompass the operational requirements of the product?'.
Then, on top of that, the discussion goes to the degree to which products exceed the performance specification. These discussions are typically backed up with incomplete snippets of data, complaints of lack of standardized testing across the marketplace, and marketing information heavily slanted to the producers favor.
So if you want to purchase a product because it's 'the best' in your mind, feel free to do so, but to go around and actually claim it's better for the job at hand is a fool's errand.
A 10-foot ladder will do (and you could probably get by with 8-foot if you're desperate).
Then the boutique guys pipe in and try to convince everyone that a 12-foot ladder is better and a 14-foot ladder is the best and a 16-foot ladder, golly gee, it must be amazing!!!
What gets lost in the discussion is that the requirement is to get out of the 10-foot hole.
Once that is accomplished, it is irrelevant how much taller the ladder is.
So whether something is boutique, or distilled from the tears of unicorns, or a bespoke blend made just especially of one customer, the job of the product is to perform per the requirements. Everything in excess of that is nebulous fluff, just like the marketing teams want it to be.
Could the boutique product perform better that something that just meets the spec? I suppose it possible, but it also begs the question of 'Who cares, given that the specifications are written to completely encompass the operational requirements of the product?'.
Then, on top of that, the discussion goes to the degree to which products exceed the performance specification. These discussions are typically backed up with incomplete snippets of data, complaints of lack of standardized testing across the marketplace, and marketing information heavily slanted to the producers favor.
So if you want to purchase a product because it's 'the best' in your mind, feel free to do so, but to go around and actually claim it's better for the job at hand is a fool's errand.
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Our Atlas is much the same, about 10K a year of mostly short trips. That's why I was intersted in trying a 504 lower SAPS oil this go around. Shipping oil back to FCP is v. easy and I always combine wiht my wipers, cabin filters, etc. I keep the large boxes my oil change kits come in and with 3 VWs in the fleet, the savings/boxes/orders ad up quick! If you buy your stuff with Paypal, you can get free return shipping (with some stipulations) including hitting print for your label and dropping off at FedEx.
Your issue here is that while you and many may have a 10' hole, there are actually folks here whose "operational requirements" are that of a 12' hole. I'm that guy - I've modified my car to more than 2x the OE power level and generally drive it hard as hell and do a few track weekends a year...for those events, I'm interested in seeing if the HPL products provide me with more protection and less viscosity drop than the standard Euro spec oils (which are 100% fine for the rest of my use and I will continue using or my daily/run-of-the mill oil changes).
A lower VI oil typically has less VII,
and creates fewer deposits.
I'd comment that in your case, you don't know how deep the hole is. The easiest way you find out is by UOA.
You may find your hole is indeed still 10 feet deep or 14 feet deep. Then you'd choose an oil accordingly. I'd venture to guess an appropriate oil for your modified engine is readily available at Walmart. No boutique required.
The UOAs are done and no, the Walmart oils etc. aren't doing what I want...that's the whole point of this thread dude....I would like this data point as well to compare.
4WD
$50 site donor 2025
Other than the TBN what is a $30 UOA telling you that's directly a function of the specific oil and not your engine or operating conditions?
The short answer is, you can't.
If engine/operating conditions are held constant (as much as it can be) then any variations should be related to the oil itself - after collecting data for 3 years over several different oils and noting the viscosity drop as a % of virgin, I'd say if the HPL comes back with a lower % drop/stays in/closer to 40W, then I achieved what I was trying to achieve by trying this oil. If it looks about the same, I can save my money for those track oil changes and keep using my free Liquimoly.
But then again as Blackstone themselves have noted there is no statistically significant difference in UOA results between any of the oils they have tested. Observing something is only the first step, the far harder thing to do is attribute the observation to one isolated variable and verify the observed change is mathematically significant.
Your thought process is correct, but I just don't know if a Blackstone UOA (or any similar type of UOA) will be able to accurately provide you with the testing that your method requires.
I've had BS do some digging for me before - I had them narrow down their database to only MK7 VW Golf platform cars and then look at ending viscosity - they said that Castrol oils in general showed the highest ending values. So they do have the capacity to search their DB but the issue is they don't know the use - that's the variable that is hard to track so for me, I know my use so can keep that somewhat constant. At some point you just accept that this analysis isn't perfect due to a lack of copious amounts of data but it's better than nothing to me which is all that matters here.
That is definitely a sentiment often expressed on here.
Are you saying it is wise to make a decision using inaccurate and incomplete data? Because there are a few others on this site who seem to have this issue and were trying hard to convince people that it was the correct approach.
