odie, good point but that UOA is over 3 years old and it is Shell Canada.
High moly dino oil
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" odie, good point but that UOA is over 3 years old and it is Shell Canada."
Thanks , pointing out that the older MOTOMASTER ( Shell ) S.M./GF-4 has less MOLY ( 37 , craigq U.O.A. ) compared to todays PENNZOIL S.N./GF-5 ( 219 , our U.O.A. ) . The previous fills of our '10 Yaris were SHELL 5w30 conventional , SM/GF-4 . Looks like the PENNZOIL / SHELL use about same amount of MOLY to this time .
Thanks , pointing out that the older MOTOMASTER ( Shell ) S.M./GF-4 has less MOLY ( 37 , craigq U.O.A. ) compared to todays PENNZOIL S.N./GF-5 ( 219 , our U.O.A. ) . The previous fills of our '10 Yaris were SHELL 5w30 conventional , SM/GF-4 . Looks like the PENNZOIL / SHELL use about same amount of MOLY to this time .
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Originally Posted By: 3311
Originally Posted By: 09rexwagon
Where can you buy FS? I know I've seen it somewhere, but it is eluding me at the moment.
Advanced Auto, BJ's, and Autozone.
You can also get it very reasonable at COSTCO.
Originally Posted By: 09rexwagon
Where can you buy FS? I know I've seen it somewhere, but it is eluding me at the moment.
Advanced Auto, BJ's, and Autozone.
You can also get it very reasonable at COSTCO.
How does the moly level in PYB compare to PP? Anyone knows?
Originally Posted By: moto94536
My local costco only carry chevron supreme, mobil 1 ( mostly 5w30 )..
I wonder what your costco carry?
Well, we can't get the Chevron Supreme oil in either Dino or Synthetic at our Costco. Only Formula Shell in Dino at the east coast Costco's. However, there is another store....B...J's that carries the Formula Shell in Dino and synthetic in 5w20,30 and 10w30. So that is where I got my supply of Synthetic Formula Shell. The Dino Formula Shell I have picked up on clearance at Walgreen's pharmacy, Target and Advanced Auto Parts.
My local costco only carry chevron supreme, mobil 1 ( mostly 5w30 )..
I wonder what your costco carry?
Well, we can't get the Chevron Supreme oil in either Dino or Synthetic at our Costco. Only Formula Shell in Dino at the east coast Costco's. However, there is another store....B...J's that carries the Formula Shell in Dino and synthetic in 5w20,30 and 10w30. So that is where I got my supply of Synthetic Formula Shell. The Dino Formula Shell I have picked up on clearance at Walgreen's pharmacy, Target and Advanced Auto Parts.
I have a friend with a BJs card, I may check in there for FS full synthetic one day for pricing.
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: ottotheclown
The high moly in Honda 0-20 syn is 1065 in the Toyota I think it is 1200 now that is high moly. So dino really does not measure up with 127 Moly. But I think why do they need such a high moly content with the 0-20 syn oil???? What is the need for so much moly. This stuff is not cheap why so much??????? :confused
Because it takes at least 800 ppm to get the maximum effect in lowering the oil's coefficient of friction. Small amounts of moly in the 100 ppm range is primarily for AW purposes.
Is there a known average for how many ppm of 'moly' show up in analysis when folks add something like MoS2 to the initial re-fill? Or an astute estimate?
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: ottotheclown
The high moly in Honda 0-20 syn is 1065 in the Toyota I think it is 1200 now that is high moly. So dino really does not measure up with 127 Moly. But I think why do they need such a high moly content with the 0-20 syn oil???? What is the need for so much moly. This stuff is not cheap why so much??????? :confused
Because it takes at least 800 ppm to get the maximum effect in lowering the oil's coefficient of friction. Small amounts of moly in the 100 ppm range is primarily for AW purposes.
Is there a known average for how many ppm of 'moly' show up in analysis when folks add something like MoS2 to the initial re-fill? Or an astute estimate?
Originally Posted By: 3311
Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
I have a friend with a BJs card, I may check in there for FS full synthetic one day for pricing.
$24.99 for 6qts. They 5&10w30 SN here in Fl near me.
Thanks.
Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
I have a friend with a BJs card, I may check in there for FS full synthetic one day for pricing.
$24.99 for 6qts. They 5&10w30 SN here in Fl near me.
Thanks.
Itslimjim , go here to get a free trial membership , http://www.bjs.com/savings.content.springmap11.D?sc_cid=MAPHP031711 , you'll get items discounted . No surcharge . Picked up 1 case of the SHELL full synthetic 5w30 (SN/GF-5) . Make sure to look at date the oil was manufactured , it's stamped on the box . The BJs here has cases dated back to 2009 . Very easy to sign up at customer service desk . We did , no problem .
The OP can do what he wants, but
1. I wouldn't change the FF out until 7500 miles or the MM is under 15%.
2. These engines can run any xw20 without any issues. I suggest a decent synthetic that is easily available OTC.
Replacing the FF early with a high moly dino oil doesn't make any sense to me.
1. I wouldn't change the FF out until 7500 miles or the MM is under 15%.
2. These engines can run any xw20 without any issues. I suggest a decent synthetic that is easily available OTC.
Replacing the FF early with a high moly dino oil doesn't make any sense to me.
I have an SI that specs 30 weight oil. And I'll be at 4500-5000k when the MM hits 15% (my k24 09 Accord usually takes 10k to hit 15% but I change it at 7500 regardless)
I autocross the car so I prefer to add ~500 miles per event to get an idea of the number of daily driven miles are on the oil.
A few FF UOAs on the SI have shown 7.8xx cSt in as few as 4k miles and seems awfully thin for a 8k rpm 11:1 compression engine.
My point is to get the FF out a bit sooner and replacing it with a conventional of similar add pack profile to continue the advised break in.
I autocross the car so I prefer to add ~500 miles per event to get an idea of the number of daily driven miles are on the oil.
A few FF UOAs on the SI have shown 7.8xx cSt in as few as 4k miles and seems awfully thin for a 8k rpm 11:1 compression engine.
My point is to get the FF out a bit sooner and replacing it with a conventional of similar add pack profile to continue the advised break in.
Pennzoil conventional (yellow bottle) SN/GF-5 is currently the highest-moly engine oil with 269 ppm Mo in the 5w30 formulation. On top of that, it has 109 ppm boron (B), another friction modifier. In addition, chances are that it's the most potent form of moly by far -- trinuclear moly -- as Infineum, the manufacturer of trinuclear moly, is owned by Exxon-Mobil and Shell.
See the PQI America VOA results.
See the PQI America VOA results.
I've had a VOA done for PYB 5W-20.
PYB is the highest-moly oil out there. This level of the high-quality trinuclear moly will benefit wear and scuff reduction, fuel economy, and any cylinder-lining/ring oil consumption greatly.
PYB is the highest-moly oil out there. This level of the high-quality trinuclear moly will benefit wear and scuff reduction, fuel economy, and any cylinder-lining/ring oil consumption greatly.
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Pennzoil conventional (yellow bottle) SN/GF-5 is currently the highest-moly engine oil with 269 ppm Mo in the 5w30 formulation. On top of that, it has 109 ppm boron (B), another friction modifier. In addition, chances are that it's the most potent form of moly by far -- trinuclear moly -- as Infineum, the manufacturer of trinuclear moly, is owned by Exxon-Mobil and Shell.
See the PQI America VOA results.
Does PYB SN 5w30 still shear to a 20w after a few thousand miles of use? If OP's engine calls for a 30w and sees autocross duty, he might be better off with something that has a lower NOACK, like a 10w30 or 5w30 synthetic.
Pennzoil conventional (yellow bottle) SN/GF-5 is currently the highest-moly engine oil with 269 ppm Mo in the 5w30 formulation. On top of that, it has 109 ppm boron (B), another friction modifier. In addition, chances are that it's the most potent form of moly by far -- trinuclear moly -- as Infineum, the manufacturer of trinuclear moly, is owned by Exxon-Mobil and Shell.
See the PQI America VOA results.
Does PYB SN 5w30 still shear to a 20w after a few thousand miles of use? If OP's engine calls for a 30w and sees autocross duty, he might be better off with something that has a lower NOACK, like a 10w30 or 5w30 synthetic.
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Originally Posted By: semaj281
Does PYB SN 5w30 still shear to a 20w after a few thousand miles of use? If OP's engine calls for a 30w and sees autocross duty, he might be better off with something that has a lower NOACK, like a 10w30 or 5w30 synthetic.
9.3 cSt is the SAE xW-20/xW-30 viscosity border. Virtually all 5w30 synthetic and conventional oils shear to around 9.0 cSt after use. xW-20 oils usually shear to around 8.0 after use. Synthetic oils are slightly better in this respect but not much -- only by a few tenths of a cSt. So, the difference between xW-20 and xW-30 after shearing (after being used) is usually less than 1.5 cSt, which is about 15%. Would that give you a 15% better safety margin on wear protection? It's hard to say and it probably depends on the engine.
Synthetic and conventional oils perform virtually the same when new. The difference happens with used oil. Conventional oils deteriorate faster in use and tend to leave more deposits and sludge when used, as they cook faster (higher NOACK evaporation). If you change your oil every 6000 miles and you don't have a demanding engine (no turbo etc.), chances are that a conventional oil is OK.
Does PYB SN 5w30 still shear to a 20w after a few thousand miles of use? If OP's engine calls for a 30w and sees autocross duty, he might be better off with something that has a lower NOACK, like a 10w30 or 5w30 synthetic.
9.3 cSt is the SAE xW-20/xW-30 viscosity border. Virtually all 5w30 synthetic and conventional oils shear to around 9.0 cSt after use. xW-20 oils usually shear to around 8.0 after use. Synthetic oils are slightly better in this respect but not much -- only by a few tenths of a cSt. So, the difference between xW-20 and xW-30 after shearing (after being used) is usually less than 1.5 cSt, which is about 15%. Would that give you a 15% better safety margin on wear protection? It's hard to say and it probably depends on the engine.
Synthetic and conventional oils perform virtually the same when new. The difference happens with used oil. Conventional oils deteriorate faster in use and tend to leave more deposits and sludge when used, as they cook faster (higher NOACK evaporation). If you change your oil every 6000 miles and you don't have a demanding engine (no turbo etc.), chances are that a conventional oil is OK.
As far as the 5w30 vs. 10w30 is concerned, the difference in NOACK volatility between the two isn't that much for conventional xW-30s, less than 1%. Sure, 10w30 will be perhaps about 1 cSt thicker after use (after shearing) and will have a higher HTHS viscosity as well, but with a modern GF-5 xW-30, I wouldn't worry about using 5w30 instead of 10w30 that much and simply pick a 5w30. You will get better cold-engine wear protection with 5w30 than with 10w30 and noticeably better overall fuel economy as well, and your engine will be better off overall with 5w30 than with 10w30.
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