Hemi MDS only works on 5w30. Not true

[Johnny248]

I don't know if anyone has posted on Bitog about this, but I know on the Chrysler forums there has been talk. Somewhere something says that MDS MUST have 5w20 to function properly. I was just on dealerconnect and for the 5.7 MDS engines under specs, this is what it says:

♦♦ Engine Oil (5.7L Engines)
MOPAR® API Certified SAE 5W-20 engine oil, meeting the requirements of Chrysler Material Standard MS-6395.

Scroll down to the ♦♦ notation, and here is what it states:

♦♦ SAE 5w30 engine oil approved to MB 229.31 or MB 229.51 may be used when SAE 5W-20 engine oil is not available.

So right there from Chrysler it shows that 5w30 is ok to use with MDS. I don't know how important the MB ratings really are with it, but for anyone that has every questioned this 5w20 issue, here you go.

 

[Alex38]

Thanks for the information! I have a 2012 Ram 1500 with a Hemi, and a large stash that included some 0w30 and 5w30. I had been planning to run it anyway during the summer months, but now I'm worried even less.

 

[Clevy]

All using a thicker oil does is slow the engagement and disengagement of mds.
In the trucks using a 20 grade is ideal because oil temps are easily controlled by the massive oil cooler. My 04 never saw temps over 200f even when towing 5000 pounds across country however my charger runs a bit hotter and there isn't much in the form of a cooler and I'm using a 40 grade presently.
Unless the oil temps are out of control there is no gain in going thicker on the trucks. They are built for it. The hemi equipped cars without an oil cooler though may experience extreme temps when getting beat on.

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: Alex38
Thanks for the information! I have a 2012 Ram 1500 with a Hemi, and a large stash that included some 0w30 and 5w30. I had been planning to run it anyway during the summer months, but now I'm worried even less.



Don't bother. You've got a monster oil cooler. Oil temps are easily controlled. The trucks have no need for thicker oil. But if you've got it in stock its not going to do any harm.
Mds will engage and disengage about half a second slower

 

[Johnny248]

Originally Posted By: Clevy
All using a thicker oil does is slow the engagement and disengagement of mds.
In the trucks using a 20 grade is ideal because oil temps are easily controlled by the massive oil cooler. My 04 never saw temps over 200f even when towing 5000 pounds across country however my charger runs a bit hotter and there isn't much in the form of a cooler and I'm using a 40 grade presently.
Unless the oil temps are out of control there is no gain in going thicker on the trucks. They are built for it. The hemi equipped cars without an oil cooler though may experience extreme temps when getting beat on.


I'm not promoting the use of anything other than 5w20. Just passing on some info to people out there. If you bought a new Hemi and have a big stash of 5w30 from the last car, it is just to let you know that it won't hurt anything to use up your 5w30.

I personally run 0w20 in mine, and everything works fine. My oil temp is usually in the 180's while running a 190 Thermostat.

BTW, are you sure this thing has an oil cooler? I don't ever remember seeing one. I know that it has an external trans cooler with a power steering cooler below. In fact, I'm looking through the service manual now and can't find anything regarding an oil cooler. I don't see any lines running from the engine oil filter area either??

 

[Merkava_4]

Quote:
Hemi MDS only works on 5w30. Not true


That thread title is wrong. It should say:

Hemi MDS only works on 5W-20. Not true

 

[Johnny248]

Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Quote:
Hemi MDS only works on 5w30. Not true


That thread title is wrong. It should say:

Hemi MDS only works on 5W-20. Not true


Good looking ! lol My mistake. And it won't let me change it now.

 

[Gabe]

MB 229.51 and API 5w-20 are wildly different specifications. I couldn't imagine them being recommended together.

Are you sure that "somewhere something" is reliable??

 

[Johnny248]

The "somewhere something" was in reference to a TSB or text from an owners manual or something along those lines that I didn't have access to at the time of the post, however nearly everyone seems to have the idea stuck in their head that you ABSOLUTELY MUST ONLY USE 5w20 or else your MDS will not work.

The owners manual states to use 5w20. The Chrysler service manual states what I posted above. It basically says use 5w20, however if it is not available, the 5w30 MB spec can be used.

This contradicts what people have been saying all on different forums about the MDS requiring 5w20 to function correctly. What "function correctly" means, I'm not really sure. I KNOW that there are plenty of MDS Hemi engines running around with whatever the bulk or available oil was where it was changed. There is no way 100% of them are on 5w20.

There are 2 TSB's about the oil. The first one here is from 11-04, before MDS was in the pickups. The second is a general oil recommendation which does not specifically say anything about MDS, and it is from 8-04. These TSB numbers are throw around a lot on the interweb as "Gods Word" on 5w20 for MDS.

http://www.wkjeeps.com/misc/LX/TSB_300C_Forums/TSB_0901504.pdf
http://www.wkjeeps.com/misc/LX/TSB_300C_Forums/TSB_0901304.pdf

 

[eljefino]

This type of "out" due to purported unavailability and specific verbiage is in other owner's manuals from other makes as well. Seems a lawyer cleared it with EPA/CAFE and so that's what they all say.

 

[Shannow]

Maybe there's good money to be made sending Aussie 5.7s back to the states, seeing as American ones are the only ones likely to suffer "defects"

 

[demarpaint]

We had a member recently post here that in 2013 hemi Ram 2500 trucks Chrysler now offers the option to use both 5W20 and 5W30 if gross weight exceeds 14,000 lbs. Years prior it was only 5W20. I asked why and never got an answer, i'm pretty sure I already know the answer though. I have a feeling they know 5W30 is better for towing or fully loaded vehicles. I'm glad to see they've moved away from the one size fits all mentality. It probably doesn't or they wouldn't have made the change.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/posts/3146985/

 

[NHGUY]

http://www.hendonpub.com/resources/article_archive/results/details?id=1978

 

[NHHEMI]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
We had a member recently post here that in 2013 hemi Ram 2500 trucks Chrysler now offers the option to use both 5W20 and 5W30 if gross weight exceeds 14,000 lbs. Years prior it was only 5W20. I asked why and never got an answer, i'm pretty sure I already know the answer though. I have a feeling they know 5W30 is better for towing or fully loaded vehicles. I'm glad to see they've moved away from the one size fits all mentality. It probably doesn't or they wouldn't have made the change.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/posts/3146985/


The 5W30 option in the 5.7L in HD trucks running 14,000lbs GVWR+ has been in place since 2007. 2005 and 2006 are the only 2 years where 5W20 alone was the oil weight spec. So...

2003-2004 = ALL 5W30( in 2003 at least 10W30 optional - can't recall if 04 allowed for it too? )
2005-2006 = ALL 5W20
2007+ = 1500 5W20
2007+ = 2500/3500 under 14,000 GVWR 5W20
2007+ = 2500/3500 over 14,000 GVWR 5W30

 

[SteveSRT8]

Jeez, guys, this issue has been beaten to death all over the internet since 04! It's hardly new.

But the facts are correct, modern day Hemis run great on almost any oil weight without any damage of any kind. MDS is remarkably tolerant of oil grade.

Might wish to note that newer 6.4's in the SRT8's have all the exact same MDS hardware and use 40 weight oil.

 

[NHHEMI]

Originally Posted By: Johnny248
I don't know if anyone has posted on Bitog about this, but I know on the Chrysler forums there has been talk. Somewhere something says that MDS MUST have 5w20 to function properly. I was just on dealerconnect and for the 5.7 MDS engines under specs, this is what it says:

♦♦ Engine Oil (5.7L Engines)
MOPAR® API Certified SAE 5W-20 engine oil, meeting the requirements of Chrysler Material Standard MS-6395.

Scroll down to the ♦♦ notation, and here is what it states:

♦♦ SAE 5w30 engine oil approved to MB 229.31 or MB 229.51 may be used when SAE 5W-20 engine oil is not available.

So right there from Chrysler it shows that 5w30 is ok to use with MDS. I don't know how important the MB ratings really are with it, but for anyone that has every questioned this 5w20 issue, here you go.


Until that same info is added to owner's manuals( which are very clear to ONLY use 5W20 )anyone running a HEMI with MDS would be foolish to use anything but 5W20( or the spec'd weight if it changes ), which is the only oil allowed for in the OM's, Until warranty has expired anyway.

 

[Danno]

MB 229.51 is a 5W-40 spec for their diesels.

 

[Maximus1966]

A DiabloSport Tuner solved all of the MDS problems for me, as well as improving my MPG (when I can keep my foot out of it!).

http://www.diablosport.com/

 

[440Magnum]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
We had a member recently post here that in 2013 hemi Ram 2500 trucks Chrysler now offers the option to use both 5W20 and 5W30 if gross weight exceeds 14,000 lbs.


Actually I'm pretty certain that verbiage is in my 2008 Ram owners manual. Of course I have a 4.7 in a 1500 so it doesn't apply, but the words are there. At that time, though, it might be that the bigger trucks didn't get MDS.

I think the whole MDS/5w20 thing is going to be one of those urban legends that just won't die... like "removing the thermostat makes an engine overheat because the water doesn't have time to get cool in the radiator." :-/

 

[440Magnum]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8

Might wish to note that newer 6.4's in the SRT8's have all the exact same MDS hardware and use 40 weight oil.


True, but if you have a Tremec transmission then MDS is permanently deactivated. Chevy started using their equivalent of MDS in manual trans cars for the 2013 model year, IIRC, but Chrysler hasn't yet. Which is fine with me, I still get better mileage than automatic SRTs with MDS generally get. And without the possible timing chain failure mode that seems to pop up in automatic/MDS cars more often than it should, but not in trucks for whatever reason.