It won't meet Jaso because it doesn't fit the phos cap of 1200ppm. Mobil recommends it for primaries--which is a wet clutch--and also for crankcases, so I see no mis-application in shared sumps.
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Help me decide what oil to use in new KTM
- Thread starter donnyj08
- Start date
Not one bit. Staying in grade means more for shift quality than all other things combined IMO. When oil starts dropping in grade from shearing and/or contamination shifting quality/feel suffers. With that, some bikes are more prone than others.
High zinc, lower zinc, high moly, lower moly, high boron, low boron matter not in my experience.
However, if it needs an MA2 designation, the manufacturer is hamstringing its customers by making so few oils on the market available to use. Clutches aren't any different than 30-40+ years ago. Specs have evolved more to do with the overall additive package than anything related to a clutch.
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I’m inclined to agree. I could immediately tell when oil was sheared down in my Sportster. Made shifting feel terrible.
In my 1980 XS1100, with the blow-by of air cooled engines from looser piston/ring tolerances, the oil would be plenty dirty by 2500 miles anyway, which was Yamaha's recommended OCI.
Yea,
I’m likely going to be stuck using a 10w50 for 24months and just being vigilant on changing oil often if I want to retain the warranty.
After the two years is up I’ll probably switch to something more robust.
Supposedly the part numbers for the head and cams were changed for the 2024 790/890 engines. However, we can only hope improvements in metallurgy and oil flow where part of those part number updates…Time will tell!
Regardless, I’m going to enjoy it. If it needs cams in 20k miles I’ll have an independent shop replace them and buy a different bike. The replacement parts are cheaper than a couple of KTM dealer services if you can believe that!
I'm betting KTM addressed the cam/follower issue based on part numbers changing.
Fingers crossed
Redline has MA2 designations on all their MC oils, fwiw.
https://www.redlineoil.com/10w50-powersports-oil
What I meant by the post about the converter concern was if a motor isn't consuming oil, zinc isn't a concern.
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I contacted them today and the 10w50 is the oil they recommended for KTM. They are unable to give me and HTHS number for this oil, which is odd given all the other oils they openly disclose…. The 15w50 has an HTHS of 6.1, I’m guessing the 10w50 has and HTHS of 5ish..??
Amsoil 10w50 Dirt may also be an option and is on multiple shelves near me as well. Not sure on its ZDDP and Moly Content, however it’s HTHS Is a respectable 4.9
even if you ran 15w40, warranty wise they wouldnt know, a 10w50 will shear to a 40 weight.
My 500 requires 10w50 or 10w60, neither of which have ever been run
What do you run in yours?
Of the xW-50 oils you're interested in, how do their KV100 viscosity compare? If you can't get the HTHS viscosity info, then KV100 (viscosity at 100C) is the next best way to compare. Typically (but not always), an oil with higher KV100 will also have higher HTHS unless it's really loaded up with VIIs that temporarily shear badly.
The redline 10w50 Powersports has a Viscosity at 100c of 19.1, but they don’t provide and HTHS. VI of 183. Looks almost identical in spec to the car version in 10w50 which they list as an HTHS of 5.0 so probably close to that range just guessing.
The Amsoil 10w50 Dirt has an HTHS of 4.9, KV100 of 18.1, and a VI of 165.
Motorex has a KV100 of 17.5, VI of 178, and a HTHS of Greater than or equal to 3.5…
Castrol 10w50 Power 1 has a KV100 of 17.3 with a VI of 164. No HTHS given.
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IMO, with these known oils that have reputations established, it's splitting hairs over the semantics at this point. Pick one and be done.
But splitting hairs is what we do here!
About 80% of all car oil threads could be eliminated here by just buying Costo/Amazon/Supertech oil! But what fun would that be?
Oh, don't we split those hairs!
I don't see much talk about UOA's and comparing those within the oils we are talking about. Many in the motorcycle UOA's on this forum.
That's where I'd be looking for how something holds up, not necessarily a VOA or manufacturer spec as to what "should" happen.
I don't see much talk about UOA's and comparing those within the oils we are talking about. Many in the motorcycle UOA's on this forum.
That's where I'd be looking for how something holds up, not necessarily a VOA or manufacturer spec as to what "should" happen.
If you are worried about the lubrication in the valve train, I'd also study which oils have the best anti-wear package. Boron is a pretty effective AW additive per this article. The valve train (cam/followers) run primarily in boundary lubrication realm, so a good anti-friction/anti-wear package is important. The HTHS viscosity isn't a big factor in boundary lubrication, but perhaps it helps minimally by keeping the surface contact level slightly lower. Of course, the metallurgy of those components is very important, and if those are bad then no oil will cure or prevent those parts from wearing excessively.
"In addition to zinc, other anti wear agents such as Boron and PTFE are used in oils as sacrificial agents. Boron offers much greater protection than even Zinc by increasing the load carrying capacity of the oil by as much as 8 times in a 4 ball load test. It also showed a 12.5% decrease in scarring over a normal engine oil with a standard anti-wear additive pack and better than 50% less scarring than a base oil only 4 ball wear test. Apart from it's increased protection, boron does not increase emission levels and is safe for catalysts."
https://penriteoil.com.au/knowledge-centre/Oil Composition and Additives/44/anti-wear-agents/174
"In addition to zinc, other anti wear agents such as Boron and PTFE are used in oils as sacrificial agents. Boron offers much greater protection than even Zinc by increasing the load carrying capacity of the oil by as much as 8 times in a 4 ball load test. It also showed a 12.5% decrease in scarring over a normal engine oil with a standard anti-wear additive pack and better than 50% less scarring than a base oil only 4 ball wear test. Apart from it's increased protection, boron does not increase emission levels and is safe for catalysts."
https://penriteoil.com.au/knowledge-centre/Oil Composition and Additives/44/anti-wear-agents/174
Excellent Info!
I wouldn’t say I’m worried, but if I can get as many miles as possible out of it before it needs cams, that would be ideal. I know most of these fluids are super close In terms of performance and
I just figured I’d get some research in before I hit 600 miles and do the first change.
I appreciate all the time and suggestions!
