4WD
$50 site donor 2025
Those sold to civilians probably had a plug to shorten the tube …A lot still are. Ours were all 4 round tubes, but we had 5 or 6 extra in a side carrier.
HD Shotgun?
- Thread starter demarpaint
- Start date
Same reason we carried 3 full magazines for our pistols and 3 full magazines for our patrol rifles
.
4WD
$50 site donor 2025
Sold here an 870 (civilian) will hold 3. You can remove the plug - but that gun can’t leave the house (hunting regulation)
So as to the genesis of modern pump action combat shotguns....in relation to magazine capacity.....
The typical modern shotgun, used in police and militaries can all be traced bad to the first successful and widely used military shotgun, the Winchester 1897.
Many design aspects of military small arms are not reflective of the operation of the gun, rather an adherence to several other factors. In military use, bayonet attachment, in the past, has been one of those defining design parameters. It has been a defining factor in other small arms aswell, like the M-16, and it many variants in relation to the gas system length and dwell time.
The 1897, having a 20 inch barrel requirement, and a requirement for the M1917 bayonet, limited the magazine capacity to 5 rounds.
Of course, all this system has to remain usable to the soldier, and while having more rounds is better, there is a trade off between usability, and feasibility.
Progressive and constant rate shotgun mag tube springs, I theorize also has sway in this 4-5 round capacity "limit" in typical tube fed shotguns. Way back, shells were made of metal and paper......paper. This was found to be unsuitable for harsh use, and extreme environments, and was quickly changed, but the gun still existed as designed. Tube springs in tube fed guns are notorious for binding, and being either too strong for the first rounds, or to weak for the last. This issue is not really an issue for the hunter, as quick rechambering is not really a requirement....but in the trenches of WW1, it was.
Today, like many other design features of guns, are relics of the past....and an understanding of why, sometimes helps.
Another example of this design idea is the M1 Garand. Although a fine rifle, it was designed with a premise of a "soldier's gun" at the time, that was a slender, and sleek piece, with no protusions, such as a "ugly detachable box" magazine. One of the reasons for this, other than the top brass, had an idea of what a soldiers rifle should "look" like......was the rifles ability to be carried...in a scabbard, ON HORSEBACK. It was realized that a detachable box was a better design, and the look of the gun was partially secondary......the genesis of the M14.
@Ranger83......to quote FBI statistics to determine a need for capacity is also a relic. In the 2000s, another statistic in opposition to your view, was the average round count of the LVMPD's officer during shootouts with gang members during a vehicle interdiction.....it was 16 rounds.....funny enough, the exact capacity of the Glock 22, the LVMPDs issued service weapon at the time.
The typical modern shotgun, used in police and militaries can all be traced bad to the first successful and widely used military shotgun, the Winchester 1897.
Many design aspects of military small arms are not reflective of the operation of the gun, rather an adherence to several other factors. In military use, bayonet attachment, in the past, has been one of those defining design parameters. It has been a defining factor in other small arms aswell, like the M-16, and it many variants in relation to the gas system length and dwell time.
The 1897, having a 20 inch barrel requirement, and a requirement for the M1917 bayonet, limited the magazine capacity to 5 rounds.
Of course, all this system has to remain usable to the soldier, and while having more rounds is better, there is a trade off between usability, and feasibility.
Progressive and constant rate shotgun mag tube springs, I theorize also has sway in this 4-5 round capacity "limit" in typical tube fed shotguns. Way back, shells were made of metal and paper......paper. This was found to be unsuitable for harsh use, and extreme environments, and was quickly changed, but the gun still existed as designed. Tube springs in tube fed guns are notorious for binding, and being either too strong for the first rounds, or to weak for the last. This issue is not really an issue for the hunter, as quick rechambering is not really a requirement....but in the trenches of WW1, it was.
Today, like many other design features of guns, are relics of the past....and an understanding of why, sometimes helps.
Another example of this design idea is the M1 Garand. Although a fine rifle, it was designed with a premise of a "soldier's gun" at the time, that was a slender, and sleek piece, with no protusions, such as a "ugly detachable box" magazine. One of the reasons for this, other than the top brass, had an idea of what a soldiers rifle should "look" like......was the rifles ability to be carried...in a scabbard, ON HORSEBACK. It was realized that a detachable box was a better design, and the look of the gun was partially secondary......the genesis of the M14.
@Ranger83......to quote FBI statistics to determine a need for capacity is also a relic. In the 2000s, another statistic in opposition to your view, was the average round count of the LVMPD's officer during shootouts with gang members during a vehicle interdiction.....it was 16 rounds.....funny enough, the exact capacity of the Glock 22, the LVMPDs issued service weapon at the time.
imagine that.Same reason we carried 3 full magazines for our pistols and 3 full magazines for our patrol rifles
4WD
$50 site donor 2025
Texas (I don’t know state by state) -
For sure on extras, options are easy enough …
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Yeah, they don't like light loads until they are broken in is my understanding, it can cause them not to cycle properly, so no running low brass #8 in it until you've had a few hundred rounds through it.
Should there be a limitation on lumens of said light?
Maybe so. Blasting yourself in the face through a mirror,while clearing out a building with white lights is not fun, but good training. It is a great training device, a mirror in a shoothouse.
My go to is the TLR-1 on pistol and long gun.
This is most certainly true. It didn't take 500 rounds, but it wouldn't cycle light clay loads reliably when I first got it. It runs right as rain now.
Yeah, I know, broken record. But a magazine fed will never be for me. It negates the capacity advantage of 1.75" shells, if it even functions with them at all. And at least in my mind is more prone to FTF than a millions out there for many decades reliable pump. 13+1 FTW every time.
I would disagree that the combination of a "short" barrel and birdshot, would be a optimal choice, for a number of reasons.
I do agree that it would likely end a threat, and be perhaps lethal at close range, but there are other factors in the use of a firearm , having to do with the legal implications of such a choice.
I would prefer to use a more definitive round such as 00 buck, as the results would be much "safer" for the shooter, after the fact.
What do police carry? Why?
It is important to know, that police and the regular citizen are under the same scrutiny (supposed to be), when using a firearm, other than the difference of "equal to or necessary force"
In short, there are no warning shots.
Yes, they do. But for a kept at the ready just in case option I'm not sold. Having X mags at the ready, each with a different loading, is great in theory but at 03:00 in a sleep stupor I don't see an advantage, at least for me, in having to choose and seat one or the other prior to being ready.
You using the bean bag rounds too?
Anything will go through drywall. Even a 22 penetrates drywall from a modest 7 yards.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
What constitutes a loaded condition? In Canada............
you think that might change soon, with current events? I hope so for you.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Any cartridge inside the firearm. So you can't have a mag inserted, and you can't have anything in the tube or integrated mag and you can't have a cartridge in the chamber for a single shot.
So, if you had an SKS, you could have a stripper clip beside it and load it rather quickly, but a pump shotgun, you'd need to load it, whereas with a mag fed shotgun, since you can store mags loaded, you can just shove a mag in it.
Oh, and this is all predicated on the use of a gun safe. If you are just using a "cabinet" (locker or something not classified as a safe, IE a storage cabinet with a glass front) the ammo must be locked up and stored separately. On the other hand, if you use a safe, the ammo doesn't need to be locked up as long as the firearm(s) is/are in the safe.
To each his own. Sure, you can go the heavy buckshot route and absolutely eliminate-kill-dismember the threat. But if you’re shooting toward the vicinity of a family member in another room, that is putting them in the line of fire. 8 shot…not so much. A hot spray of 8 shot may not rip meat off the bone but it will stop them. Holes in eyes, mouth, nose, face, neck, midsection, and groin will do the job. You do you, I’ll do me. There’s 8 of those loaded in my Mossberg all the time. I’m about 35 feet from the front door standing at the top of a staircase. Come on in!
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