HD Shotgun?

[demarpaint]

Nope. Buckshot isn’t needed for home protection. Bird shot is best. #8

This brings back interesting debates I participated in several times over the years. The answer is it depends. Inside my home the longest distance would be under 20', 20 yards is a totally different story. As you go further it's another story again. So for 20 feet my bet is #8 bird shot could be all you need. This turned out to be a very interesting and informative thread.

 

[PontiacHO]

Back in the day I used to study ballistics heavily. I have testified in court on ballistics. I have volumes of info. I have case files upon case files. And I remember at least 5 cases where a person is dead because they used birdshot and not an appropriate buckshot load.

Your last line says “birdshot… will definatly neutralize a threat. That’s an absolute fallacy. Bullets can neutralize a threat in 3 ways. Exsanguination (blood loss), central nervous system damage to spine/brain, or psychologically (I’ve been shot! Call me an ambulance. I surrender!!)

Bird shot lacks penetration to reach most vital organs so it often times cannot stop a person that is determined to continue fighting. People can be on drugs, alcohol, or suicidal and just not care that they have been shot with birdshot and continue the attack until YOU are dead.

Use smaller buckshot. It will penetrate deep enough and be safer for bystanders. I always recommend #4 buck.

If you have serious concerns about over penetration and walls, a T shot or BBB shot will likely be lethal and safer. Never an 8 shot.

8 shot is bird shot at least in North Carolina. Neutralizing an intruder will definitely happen when their eyes have been eliminated, teeth broken, and hot pellets under a great portion of their epidermis.

 

[Astro14]

8 shot is bird shot at least in North Carolina. Neutralizing an intruder will definitely happen when their eyes have been eliminated, teeth broken, and hot pellets under a great portion of their epidermis.

So, you’re saying that you try for a head shot, not center mass, in a defensive situation? With birdshot?

 

[PontiacHO]

So, you’re saying that you try for a head shot, not center mass, in a defensive situation? With birdshot?

with a home defense shotgun, (short barrel) all you need to do is have the gun pointed in the direction of the intruder. The spread and spray of shot does the rest. Place a 4” x 8” sheet of plywood or wall board 30 feet away and shoot from the hip with short barrel and #8 shot. You’ll quickly understand.

 

[Astro14]

with a home defense shotgun, (short barrel) all you need to do is have the gun pointed in the direction of the intruder. The spread and spray of shot does the rest. Place a 4” x 8” sheet of plywood or wall board 30 feet away and shoot from the hip with short barrel and #8 shot. You’ll quickly understand.

I have shot a shotgun at that range. 12 Gauge. 00 Buck. Don’t know the choke/barrel particulars.

The pattern was about 3” in diameter. Not much of a spread.

Still requires careful aiming.

Which makes a head shot a difficult target - and certainly not a realistic “from the hip” shot.

That’s why I am asking - I don’t understand a non-lethal projectile, and a strategy for employment that is unlikely to work.

 

[PontiacHO]

I have shot a shotgun at that range. 12 Gauge. 00 Buck. Don’t know the choke/barrel particulars.

The pattern was about 3” in diameter. Not much of a spread.

Still requires careful aiming.

Which makes a head shot a difficult target - and certainly not a realistic “from the hip” shot.

That’s why I am asking - I don’t understand a non-lethal projectile, and a strategy for employment that is unlikely to work.

Hence the need for the short barrel and 8 shot (410+ pellets) vs 00 buckshot with 8 pellets. When eyes are literally busted and there is 11/8 ounces of pellets thrown at them, they change their mind about why they kicked the front door down…

 

[4WD]

I have shot a shotgun at that range. 12 Gauge. 00 Buck. Don’t know the choke/barrel particulars.

The pattern was about 3” in diameter. Not much of a spread.

Still requires careful aiming.

Which makes a head shot a difficult target - and certainly not a realistic “from the hip” shot.

That’s why I am asking - I don’t understand a non-lethal projectile, and a strategy for employment that is unlikely to work.

#8 is small - that’s a dove shell. The example given is for large geese with heavy directional feathers. Some load HD: goose>>buck>>slug. The reason for doing this at my camp is you are more likely to have a rattlesnake by the door (broke my rules, had hundreds of acres) or a coyote that won’t let me sleep … The next rounds bcs of remoteness …

 

[joekingcorvette]

The Stoeger coach gun side by side double barrel in a 12 gauge would be a nice one.

 

[thastinger]

Hence the need for the short barrel and 8 shot (410+ pellets) vs 00 buckshot with 8 pellets. When eyes are literally busted and there is 11/8 ounces of pellets thrown at them, they change their mind about why they kicked the front door down…

If you are rolling your own, you can def make quick spreading 00 or 000 buck. You can get 12 00 pellets into a 2.75 hull, load them with a half inch felt wad so that the pellets loose in the hull, obviously don't use buffer.

I'm not saying I would want to shoot that inside my house, just saying you can build much better 10 yard stuff than you can buy.

 

[LDB]

The Stoeger coach gun side by side double barrel in a 12 gauge would be a nice one.

Oh no! Three intruders! Bang! Bang! Click. Oops. Mossberg 590S 13+1 rounds of 1.75" #4 FTW.

 

[demarpaint]

So, you’re saying that you try for a head shot, not center mass, in a defensive situation? With birdshot?

At the 20' max range I descried in my home defense example a center of mass shot doesn't seem too tough for someone who is familiar with a shotgun. Like anything else the right tool [ammo] for the job, I'd pass on #8 shot where 20' becomes 10-20 yards.

 

[Chris142]

Home Depot shotguns! . Sorry, no help here I thought Home Depot started selling shotguns

That's what I was hoping for. It's getting real hard to buy guns or ammo here. Hardly any stores left.

 

[demarpaint]

That's what I was hoping for. It's getting real hard to buy guns or ammo here. Hardly any stores left.

PITA to get ammo in NY too. I might start reloading for my shotguns.

 

[shortyb]

Sorry, if someone is inside my home uninvited, and with no good reason for being there, I take that as a threat they are trying to do me harm. I am not about to balance the situation 50/50, rather tip the scale in my favor of having a positive outcome for me. #8 birdshot moves me closer to that equilibrium than I'm comfortable with. Big round lead balls buried deep enough to cause massive internal damage and reduce the liklihood that the guest doesn't continue to pose a threat to me is my choice. Not worried about overpenetration as before I head out to greet my visitor, my wife is safely in our bedroom walk-in closet behind the 1/4" steel plates that line the inside 8' up the walls and is calling the calvary. No one else in my home most times, except when my son comes to visit. I will toss him one of my other boom sticks as we both go out to ensure we don't get hurt and they have to use a shop-vac to escort the intruder out. Incidentally, 12 pellet 00 Buck out of my 14" cylinder bore barreled 870 at 20-25', is about a 5-6" spread. Plenty.

 

[4WD]

Sorry, if someone is inside my home uninvited, and with no good reason for being there, I take that as a threat they are trying to do me harm. I am not about to balance the situation 50/50, rather tip the scale in my favor of having a positive outcome for me. #8 birdshot moves me closer to that equilibrium than I'm comfortable with. Big round lead balls buried deep enough to cause massive internal damage and reduce the liklihood that the guest doesn't continue to pose a threat to me is my choice. Not worried about overpenetration as before I head out to greet my visitor, my wife is safely in our bedroom walk-in closet behind the 1/4" steel plates that line the inside 8' up the walls and is calling the calvary. No one else in my home most times, except when my son comes to visit. I will toss him one of my other boom sticks as we both go out to ensure we don't get hurt and they have to use a shop-vac to escort the intruder out. Incidentally, 12 pellet 00 Buck out of my 14" cylinder bore barreled 870 at 20-25', is about a 5-6" spread. Plenty.

How many times have you heard I want something that won’t go through the wall and harm someone else. I’m sorry but if that wee round thing can’t do Sheetrock - it ain’t doing KidRock …

 

[4WD]

Oh no! Three intruders! Bang! Bang! Click. Oops. Mossberg 590S 13+1 rounds of 1.75" #4 FTW.

Yeah, even a converted hunting gun will hold 5 …

 

[OVERKILL]

with a home defense shotgun, (short barrel) all you need to do is have the gun pointed in the direction of the intruder. The spread and spray of shot does the rest. Place a 4” x 8” sheet of plywood or wall board 30 feet away and shoot from the hip with short barrel and #8 shot. You’ll quickly understand.

Yes, it spreads a lot, but it spreads less and less the closer you are and there's the issue of lack of penetration, as the video I shared shows, at the more intermediate distances. And of course there's no guarantee that you are going to hit the eyes with the spread, and bone stops #8 quite easily, so if the guy is on meth or something, you've damaged none of his vital organs and now he's on meth and pissed off.

Then of course there's the issue of where you live. If this situation plays out in some states and other countries where the perp can successfully tie you up in court for "excessive force" or "shooting to maim" (because you weren't using an arguably lethal enough load), you could end up bankrupt, in jail, or both. A Canadian cop once said that if you are forced into using a gun for self defence in Canada, make sure they are dead (not just incapacitated) because the court case (and there WILL be a court case, because you WILL be charged) goes much smoother when the story only has one side.

 

[4WD]

This brings back interesting debates I participated in several times over the years. The answer is it depends. Inside my home the longest distance would be under 20', 20 yards is a totally different story. As you go further it's another story again. So for 20 feet my bet is #8 bird shot could be all you need. This turned out to be a very interesting and informative thread.

Another debate is shell length - if the gun max is 3” - some are more reliable bringing forward 2-3/4” shells …
(With buckshot that’s Ok)

 

[demarpaint]

Another debate is shell length - if the gun max is 3” - some are more reliable bringing forward 2-3/4” shells …
(With buckshot that’s Ok)

+1 Even though we're talking shotguns here: We got a thick vs. thin, drop the FF early, and boutique vs. off the shelf oils debate all wrapped into one going on here. I'm enjoying this thread a lot.

 

[4WD]

+1 Even though we're talking shotguns here: We got a thick vs. thin, drop the FF early, and boutique vs. off the shelf oils debate all wrapped into one going on here. I'm enjoying this thread a lot.

It’s Okay to mix Remington, Federal, and Winchester in the tube