Tariffick
Harley-Davidson Moving More Production Overseas!
- Thread starter EngineWhisperer
- Start date
Management is responsible for on going success of the company. It is not the workers, at least not directly.
America needs to value education more, in all phases of business. Engineering and business management.
And value long term results instead of the short term. Otherwise expect more of the same. Thinking we are the best, bulletproof, whatever, is fool hearty. No one takes my job; I give it away.
America needs to value education more, in all phases of business. Engineering and business management.
And value long term results instead of the short term. Otherwise expect more of the same. Thinking we are the best, bulletproof, whatever, is fool hearty. No one takes my job; I give it away.
Interestingly Walmart is actively trying to bring manufacturing back to the USA. Seems they figured out lowest manufactured cost maybe isn't as great as they thought it might be:
https://talkbusiness.net/2024/08/th...:text=As 2017 winds to a,in the U.S. by 2023.
They even helped fund a bicycle assembly plant in South Carolina. There up front about still using Chinese parts, but at least Americans are putting them together.
https://www.bca.bike/
The CEO needs to go.
This regards Jeff's post, 3 up.
Ego, braggadocio, disturbing backwards vision and selective naivete......on today's national scene?
Ha, another line not to be crossed. (see post #14, above)
Mrs. Kira and I walked into Bergen County H-D.
I wanted to show her the brilliant, deep green example of the then current "Hard Candy" finishes.
The alert sales staff numbered two on the floor and one observer. He milled about pretending to play with parts and papers.
They were like mold on bread...you couldn't brush them off.
Ego, braggadocio, disturbing backwards vision and selective naivete......on today's national scene?
Ha, another line not to be crossed. (see post #14, above)
Mrs. Kira and I walked into Bergen County H-D.
I wanted to show her the brilliant, deep green example of the then current "Hard Candy" finishes.
The alert sales staff numbered two on the floor and one observer. He milled about pretending to play with parts and papers.
They were like mold on bread...you couldn't brush them off.
No, they do just fine when run correctly.
See my example about BCA.
There are some other companies that do well. BMW, Mercedes, Nissan among others all build world class cars in the US. Michelin, Bridgestone, Continental. I could go on and on. They use predominantly US workers. There is the occasional Expat but mostly local.
My experience is the old American manufacturers would rather use H1B visa types rather than pay American technical people. They tend to do poorly. The H1B visa types are here for a good time not a long time, and could care less if things work or they don't.
Are you kidding me? Harley is moving because of retaliatory tariffs on their exports. They're doing what they must do to survive as a company as domestic sales continue to wane. They did this last time tariff fever was going around. The sad part is that those jobs are probably gone forever.
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I have no problem with Harley building in their respective markets vs exporting out of the USA.
I'm being incentivized to do the same. All American manufacturers are.
Currently Were about 50/25/25.
We'd be better off if we made a small manufacturing line in the euro zone and somewhere in APAC.
I'm being incentivized to do the same. All American manufacturers are.
Currently Were about 50/25/25.
We'd be better off if we made a small manufacturing line in the euro zone and somewhere in APAC.
I looked it up and was surprised how few motorcycles they sell. LIke 100K per year in the US, 50K per year in the rest of world.
Most people cant afford what they are asking, and the sport is starting to die in general.
I like them.
I dont like them as much as Japanese or German bikes, especially for the price.
Every problem is a management problem.
Having said that, the lack of qualified talent is a huge problem.
Tariffs could put many companies out of business. Especially manufacturing companies where material is usually the largest component in the Cost of Goods Sold calculation. If you are high volume low margin, ouch! Cash flow is only everything...
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Pretty sure the bikes for other markets were already being built elsewhere. US bikes were built here, seems that's no longer the case.
REV Max bikes aren't selling, even the Pan America is soft compared to the more traditional bikes which aren't exactly flying out the door.
Harely has tried variations on the rev max line (the "Street series" and "Sport" series" and it has flopped both times now. If someone over there doesn't deeply regret not just trying to make the EVO sporty pass Euro 5 then they are all idiots.
REV Max bikes aren't selling, even the Pan America is soft compared to the more traditional bikes which aren't exactly flying out the door.
Harely has tried variations on the rev max line (the "Street series" and "Sport" series" and it has flopped both times now. If someone over there doesn't deeply regret not just trying to make the EVO sporty pass Euro 5 then they are all idiots.
Tariff's certainly may upset the apple cart.
Percentage of COGS attributable to materials can vary a lot. A car its maybe 10%. A semiconductor its probably less than 1% I would guess?? Something like a chemical it can easily be 50%.
The whole point is for people to move manufacturing to the country initiating the tariffs. If everyone has good jobs then they can afford to pay more for things. The vast majority of the economy is services (70%) not goods anyway.
Certainly material costs can vary a lot, especially in more expensive vehicles.
But perhaps check your numbers... From one article:
Raw materials and auto parts – this is by far the biggest cost driver in the auto industry, accounting for up to 57% of the total price.
I read your article 3 times and it makes no sense "Toyota relies on huge production volumes to lower their costs. For a car that sells for $5,000, the manufacturer can make about $2,500 in profits, leaving the cost of manufacturing at about $12,500." Huh? Sells for $5000 but the cost of manufacturing is $12,500.
There math is 57% materials and parts, they then say that R&D is 17% of this, and then get into sales tax and markups???? It seems maybe they mean that 57% of the final sell price is the cost to actually make the car, maybe? No idea.
Anyway yes I am sure the leather in a Bugatti is very expensive. But I can assure you that the material cost is not 57% for a regular production vehicle. Now if you want to do the math that says Toyota assembly plant pays the Toyota engine plant $5000 for the engine, then OK. But the engine plant paid $100 for the aluminum, maybe $500 for some valvetrain parts and whatever from Denso, and cast, machined and assembled the engine and sold it to the Assembly plant. The $5000 engine cost them maybe $600 in materials.
Pan America is modern-ish but the Sportster seems to live in a price-conscious part of the market. So not surprising.
When I bought a Roadster some years ago and set out to make it better, I was surprised to find most of the parts on the front of the bike were metric. HD sourced most of their suspension components from Japanese companies. While they bought brakes from “Findlay” that company was owned by Nissin and it was basically a warehouse. Always thought it quite naive to think HD was going to defy international economics, especially with an aging, shrinking customer base.
My Triumph Tiger has tons of Japanese parts. Some of the new ones are produced in Thailand: “Triumph has six-world class factories around the world. Two of these factories are based in Hinckley in the UK, just a stone’s throw from the Mallory Park race track. There are also three factories in Chonburi, Thailand, and one in Manaus, Brazil.”
BMW has factories in Brazil, China, India, and Thailand.
https://www.bmwgroup-werke.com/berlin/en/unser-werk/internationale-produktion.html
Honda has motorcycle plants in Argentina, Brazil, China, and half a dozen other countries.
When I bought a Roadster some years ago and set out to make it better, I was surprised to find most of the parts on the front of the bike were metric. HD sourced most of their suspension components from Japanese companies. While they bought brakes from “Findlay” that company was owned by Nissin and it was basically a warehouse. Always thought it quite naive to think HD was going to defy international economics, especially with an aging, shrinking customer base.
My Triumph Tiger has tons of Japanese parts. Some of the new ones are produced in Thailand: “Triumph has six-world class factories around the world. Two of these factories are based in Hinckley in the UK, just a stone’s throw from the Mallory Park race track. There are also three factories in Chonburi, Thailand, and one in Manaus, Brazil.”
BMW has factories in Brazil, China, India, and Thailand.
https://www.bmwgroup-werke.com/berlin/en/unser-werk/internationale-produktion.html
Honda has motorcycle plants in Argentina, Brazil, China, and half a dozen other countries.
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Imho, quality of the bikes will likely improve, appeal of the brand to HD customers in USA will take a dive thou.
P
Two salesmen just sat there. One of the parts guys saw me looking at the bike and came out and started chatting. He knew all about the bike, and expressed hope they’d have success, but mentioned “some business problems,” while glancing at the idle salespeople.
When HD introduced the XR1200 in Europe in 2006, it was basically a factory-improved Roadster so I was interested when it hit the U.S. two years later. Rode the Roadster to Boston HD and walked in. Walked around for a few minutes, and finally spotted the bike in a corner: you literally couldn’t get near it.
The salesman who finally approached knew absolutely nothing about the bike. Nothing. I correctly assumed their U.S. sales effort would fail and you could buy a used one at a deep discount a couple years later, and that’s exactly what happened.
HD isn’t the only one who fails in new markets. BMW released a cruiser style bike called the Montauk that was anchored to the showroom. Their new R18 is another bike aimed at the cruiser market and is not doing well. Ducati Diavel, also fail.
After HD bought Buell, I walked into Manchester, NH HD to look at their Adventure model, the Ulysses. I was in riding gear.
Two salesmen just sat there. One of the parts guys saw me looking at the bike and came out and started chatting. He knew all about the bike, and expressed hope they’d have success, but mentioned “some business problems,” while glancing at the idle salespeople.
When HD introduced the XR1200 in Europe in 2006, it was basically a factory-improved Roadster so I was interested when it hit the U.S. two years later. Rode the Roadster to Boston HD and walked in. Walked around for a few minutes, and finally spotted the bike in a corner: you literally couldn’t get near it.
The salesman who finally approached knew absolutely nothing about the bike. Nothing. I correctly assumed their U.S. sales effort would fail and you could buy a used one at a deep discount a couple years later, and that’s exactly what happened.
HD isn’t the only one who fails in new markets. BMW released a cruiser style bike called the Montauk that was anchored to the showroom. Their new R18 is another bike aimed at the cruiser market and is not doing well. Ducati Diavel, also fail.
Bikes are luxury items for an average person in North America, they cost a bunch, need place to store safely like a house garage, gear and maintenance are spendy, cannot ride them year around except in US South. One needs time to enjoy riding, using a bike for commute makes it a bit of a chore especially if weather is hot or wet and you deal with traffic. When I had one my bike buddies wanted to do group rides and a couple raced. Racing wasn't for me, couldn't afford getting injured or to get bike damaged. Large group rides were not fun to me. I keep thinking of getting a bike again but not sure how much I'd enjoy one now being older and wife is pushing back too.
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I'm not interested in a motorcycle that costs north of 20K, it just isn't good value to me. No matter where it's made. My 2002 Superglide is still ticking over just fine and is likely to do so long after I'm gone.
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