that's what happens when US exports will get tarrifs on them and your company lives on exports...
Harley-Davidson Moving More Production Overseas!
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that's what happens when US exports will get tarrifs on them and your company lives on exports...
The problem is that HD has had several ceo changes over the last few years. One of the CEOs that was replaced hit it on the head. Harley Davidson needs a broader product line. Nobody in my age bracket( I'm 42) can afford nor want a loud heavy air cooled motorcycle. The current ceo from memory went back to HD's loud heavy big motorcycle. A jalopnik or autopian article recently highlighted a Harley Davidson motorcycle that isn't sold here but is being used by several riding schools for people to get their motorcycle endorsement. It will be interesting to see how this shakes out.
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Is it possible Harley Davidson has quietly given up on the U.S. market?
Asia has a booming population, measurable increase in their middle class, and Asians love all things Americano.
Maybe HD is not saying it publicly, but in the board room could they possibly see Asia as HD's future (target/ growth market). Numerous reports show HD has not been able to capture the eyes of many Americans under 40 years of age. I worked with a middle-aged man from Indonesia last year--- his HD was his pride and joy.
How much does Asia love all things American???? Kenny Rogers Roasters, Shakey's pizza, Mr. Donut, even TGI Fridays are booming in Asia today--- right this minute.
The old saying move west young man...... maybe HD is moving its future to targeting customers 7,000 miles west of Milwaukee.....
Asia has a booming population, measurable increase in their middle class, and Asians love all things Americano.
Maybe HD is not saying it publicly, but in the board room could they possibly see Asia as HD's future (target/ growth market). Numerous reports show HD has not been able to capture the eyes of many Americans under 40 years of age. I worked with a middle-aged man from Indonesia last year--- his HD was his pride and joy.
How much does Asia love all things American???? Kenny Rogers Roasters, Shakey's pizza, Mr. Donut, even TGI Fridays are booming in Asia today--- right this minute.
The old saying move west young man...... maybe HD is moving its future to targeting customers 7,000 miles west of Milwaukee.....
Every country on earth except the USA has import "tariffs", its called a VAT.
This is not a new problem whatsoever for HD or anyone else manufacturing in USA.
no, VAT isn't an import tarrif, it's also added to domestic goods. the us equivalent would be sales tax.
Yes, its the same thing as Tariff for outsiders. We can't have a VAT - Constitutionally not allowed.
If I make something in Germany and ship final product to USA, no VAT. You don't pay a VAT on finished goods leaving the country.
If I receive that product in USA and need to ship back to Germany for repair - I pay 19% VAT incoming into Germany that I don't ever get back. I do it all the time. Same if I make the product here and then ship to Germany.
VAT is the same as Tarif to outsider. Manufacturers here pay all kinds of state and local taxes, and federal payroll taxes that outsiders don't pay. Its been unfair forever.
Its the big joke for manufacturing outside the USA. We be the rubes.
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Sounds like the only outsider is the US, by their own making.
But the new tarrifss will be countered by the rest of the world, so good luck with just paying 19% except the rest of the world won't tariff each other. Again the US making itself an outsider.
Harleys and other products will be unexportable soon, from the US at least. and they rely a lot on exports.
We run huge trade trade deficits with everyone - so we are the global the customer. They don't want to / can't just trade amongst themselves. If they don't want to sell to us, good, we will make our own.
If your saying we should have a VAT - maybe we should. But requires a constitutional amendment, so will never get done. Too many globalists in power.
Harley Davidson is 2/3 USA sales 1/3 exports. If it makes sense for them to make goods for foreign sale elsewhere then good for them.
China is the biggest exporter of goods, they run huge trade surpluses with everyone. If we tariff china what are they going to do? There is no one else for them to sell to, were the largest consumer market by a mile. If we tariff France, who they going to sell to, China? China wants to be the seller, not the buyer.
We have all the leverage because we are the global customer.
but it's yourself you're taxing. you as a customer pay that tax, never the producer. get ready for everything to get more expensive by the tariff amount
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I do understand the sentiment. If Snap On moved production overseas for me, I’d hang
On to what I have, and say the price is not justified.
As far as the pro USA sentiment, I absolutely am rooting whole heartedly for USA hockey on Thu night.
Made in USA? Our buddy Jimmy just got a 43% raise. He and a lot of his coworkers were not satisfied. When I saw him roll in with a new Escalade (the old one was an ‘18) at the Xmas party, I do wonder if this is what made in USA achieves. The other thing is his employer laid off managers to accommodate the raises. Symbolism is one thing, making a profit is quite another. My .02 I did buy our GM in 2011 making sure it was at least assembled in MI and had a high US content.
On to what I have, and say the price is not justified.
As far as the pro USA sentiment, I absolutely am rooting whole heartedly for USA hockey on Thu night.
Made in USA? Our buddy Jimmy just got a 43% raise. He and a lot of his coworkers were not satisfied. When I saw him roll in with a new Escalade (the old one was an ‘18) at the Xmas party, I do wonder if this is what made in USA achieves. The other thing is his employer laid off managers to accommodate the raises. Symbolism is one thing, making a profit is quite another. My .02 I did buy our GM in 2011 making sure it was at least assembled in MI and had a high US content.
True, probably won't work because people want cheap goods and stimulus checks to pay for them, not well paying factory jobs. But there is no one left to pay for their UBI. Everyone is broke. Same reason for declining car sales. Same for declining home sales.
Harley Davidson may have caused some of their own problems, but there as much a victim of the same forces, no one can afford a $25K motorcycle anymore.
There’s the answer! The woke European has made poor decisions. Perhaps the board of directors needs to go too?
Welcome to Thailand! As a Triumph owner/rider was surprised and saddened to learn they had also transferred production to Thailand. Not hearing any news of a precipitous fall off in quality after at least 10 years of production. I understand and appreciate "Harley D" is a premium nostalgic American brand. Commiserations.
Well I've read this Long blog and heard all of the responses.
Personally there are a couple of posts here that make a lot of sense,
one is having better educated quality control people.
Another one is having company presidents qualified to manage by bringing in qualified people and that goes all the way down the line.
And as far as all this talk about tariffs and we're all going to go broke from overpriced goods, we need to change our policies radically with a lot of things like fuel cost, domestic Goods and throttle back these companies that want to give away our industry and our innovations!
Bring our company's back in the US and make our jobs stay here. Help always starts at the home first. At 67 I'm sick and tired of paying high taxes on everything that I buy only to see that it's made from some third world. And a lot of times the quality is Just Junk. So I get very insulted when I constantly hear people say, here in the US we make crap!
Personally there are a couple of posts here that make a lot of sense,
one is having better educated quality control people.
Another one is having company presidents qualified to manage by bringing in qualified people and that goes all the way down the line.
And as far as all this talk about tariffs and we're all going to go broke from overpriced goods, we need to change our policies radically with a lot of things like fuel cost, domestic Goods and throttle back these companies that want to give away our industry and our innovations!
Bring our company's back in the US and make our jobs stay here. Help always starts at the home first. At 67 I'm sick and tired of paying high taxes on everything that I buy only to see that it's made from some third world. And a lot of times the quality is Just Junk. So I get very insulted when I constantly hear people say, here in the US we make crap!
The worst part about this sort of thing is how individuals will then claim how unamerican it was to move production.
Well I hear that response a lot . I see it as capitalism at its finest and that's what we do here in America we like to make as much money with the lowest cost of production for a product.
Case in point, I was a Levi 501 shrink to fit kind of guy for years and they have moved to a global platform of production. Now I get 501 shrink to fit that are very different in quality, not so much the stitching and rivets but in the type of material, it is very thin now. But I'm paying the same price or more for them.
Personally I think it's the bottom lines that are driving companies out of the country and figure if they can get away with a certain quality then so be it.
Case in point, I was a Levi 501 shrink to fit kind of guy for years and they have moved to a global platform of production. Now I get 501 shrink to fit that are very different in quality, not so much the stitching and rivets but in the type of material, it is very thin now. But I'm paying the same price or more for them.
Personally I think it's the bottom lines that are driving companies out of the country and figure if they can get away with a certain quality then so be it.
Weirdly enough The German Hell's Angels, and from talking with several Scandinavian people they really love Harley Davidson. I don't know if it was on this forum or another but I've read multiple stories of unless you pull up in a big truck or Harley Davidson most sales associates won't talk to you. My dad and I went to a motorcycle museum in Arizona a couple of years ago. It's in a Harley Davidson Dealership and everyone there was super nice and asked if I rode or had a bike.
We’ve been doing the “globalization thing” for long enough now that we know where it leads, and it’s not a good place for Americans.
Time to try something different. And the more crying and doomsday predictions by the globalist experts I see, the more convinced I am it is the correct way to bring back manufacturing here and make the middle class prosperous again.
All the Tariff talk is walking thin line for politics IMO it's nearly impossible to address without getting into the Politics of it all.
KTM/BMW/Husky/Triumph/Honda and probably others have or are building bikes in Thailand and India, this is not new, The MoCo has too, they just have not historically brought them over here. (though i think the street line may have had a few brought over)
As mentioned earlier the PanAm and the "Sport" line are the bikes that are slated to move production, also as mentioned they aren't selling very well i actually think they should kill the Sport line. They missed the mark and they missed with sportster buyers. Plus they are too expensive, they'd be better off to bring back the softail standard and sell it at a loss to get an entry bike. The new Sportster S is actually a pretty good bike but its ugly the Nightster is only slightly better looking, neither appeals to someone who one day wants a "Harley" but cant quite afford one yet so they fail...
I actually think that's wrong thinking from the previous CEO, yes they need an entry bike, but they should focus on their strengths. That and not alienating the core buyer. The Present CEO isn't a bike guy, someone who grew up in the company needs to be in charge. Joycean or whatever his name is needs to be working back at a sneaker company or something.
I know a few people in that age bracket who both can afford and want a Harley, I was pretty close to that when I bought ours. I know its going to see like i'm picking on you, but your characterization of a Harley as loud and heavy and air cooled tells me you haven't looked at or rode a new one in a while. I don't actually think any of them are purely air cooled anymore, they cant be loud by noise standards and the softies are around a 100 lbs lighter than the old ones. Im fairly sure the Touring bikes are lighter too that the Rushmore bikes which were lighter then the pre rushmore bikes.
Last years Low Rider S hardly beat Indians Sport Chief in most categories in several test i was reading, The 25s are too new to have much out there, but they got more engine and new suspension rates.
Pretty sure this is the bike you're talking about:
https://www.harley-davidson.com/in/en/motorcycles/x-440.html
Though the Street 500's are also used in the Rider Education Program.
Pretty sure one of the rules at least was it has to be American made.
Ive been in Harley dealers all over the country and i would say that is rare to unheard of to be ignored, its much more common to have issues getting them to leave you alone. I've found the vast majority to be very nice and just riders lot of them don't seem to care what you ride.
KTM/BMW/Husky/Triumph/Honda and probably others have or are building bikes in Thailand and India, this is not new, The MoCo has too, they just have not historically brought them over here. (though i think the street line may have had a few brought over)
As mentioned earlier the PanAm and the "Sport" line are the bikes that are slated to move production, also as mentioned they aren't selling very well i actually think they should kill the Sport line. They missed the mark and they missed with sportster buyers. Plus they are too expensive, they'd be better off to bring back the softail standard and sell it at a loss to get an entry bike. The new Sportster S is actually a pretty good bike but its ugly the Nightster is only slightly better looking, neither appeals to someone who one day wants a "Harley" but cant quite afford one yet so they fail...
I actually think that's wrong thinking from the previous CEO, yes they need an entry bike, but they should focus on their strengths. That and not alienating the core buyer. The Present CEO isn't a bike guy, someone who grew up in the company needs to be in charge. Joycean or whatever his name is needs to be working back at a sneaker company or something.
I know a few people in that age bracket who both can afford and want a Harley, I was pretty close to that when I bought ours. I know its going to see like i'm picking on you, but your characterization of a Harley as loud and heavy and air cooled tells me you haven't looked at or rode a new one in a while. I don't actually think any of them are purely air cooled anymore, they cant be loud by noise standards and the softies are around a 100 lbs lighter than the old ones. Im fairly sure the Touring bikes are lighter too that the Rushmore bikes which were lighter then the pre rushmore bikes.
Last years Low Rider S hardly beat Indians Sport Chief in most categories in several test i was reading, The 25s are too new to have much out there, but they got more engine and new suspension rates.
Pretty sure this is the bike you're talking about:
https://www.harley-davidson.com/in/en/motorcycles/x-440.html
Though the Street 500's are also used in the Rider Education Program.
Pretty sure one of the rules at least was it has to be American made.
Ive been in Harley dealers all over the country and i would say that is rare to unheard of to be ignored, its much more common to have issues getting them to leave you alone. I've found the vast majority to be very nice and just riders lot of them don't seem to care what you ride.
Harley Davidson needs to survive. The motorcycle industry in the USA has been declining for years. The young generation will care less where a heavy cruiser is made.
For those who do not know, Harley Davidson commands a USA MARKET SHARE OF 74.5% in the heavy weight cruiser market. That has always been their specialty and no overseas company from ANY country has ever been able to get a foot hold. ALL of them have suffered and slashed offerings in the USA in that market segment. SO to expect them to sell as much as Honda, would be the same to say expect Porsche to sell the same amount of cars as Hyundai.
We are the USA, we live in luxury, a Harley is a dream bike overseas. Just a few months ago I was in an affluent area of the Philippines. Car dealers like Bentley, Rolls Royce, Ferrari etc... along with that went inside a small Harley dealership. The cruisers there are $5,000 more than the same models we buy here.
So when we compare motorcycle sales remember, companies like Honda worldwide sell millions and also in the USA about tied with Harley but those are cheap light bikes and overseas the Honda motorcycles are many mopeds. So understand the class of bikes we are talking. None of these makes offer luxury heavy cruisers that Harley does and when overseas makers did, they all failed except the Goldwing and even Honda failed miserably with their other models that were supposed to compete with Harleys other offerings over a decade ago, same goes for Yamaha and Kawasaki. Anyway, Harley commands 72% of that heavy weight market.
Remember when Polaris Victory Brand was going to kill Harley sales? What happened? Polaris shut them down and bought an auto parts business with the proceeds. Now in addition to jet skies, atvs etc they bought the Indian name a year or two before or around that time in 2012. That was supposed to be the next Harley killer and yet a decade later Harley still comands a 75% market share. I'm just saying this cause it is silly lumping luxury road traveling cruises with throwaway sport bikes and mopeds. SO we do the same things with automobiles of course not.
“The launch of our new Street Glide and Road Glidetouring motorcycles contributed to nearly 5% growth in the U.S. Touring segment and drove H-D’s market share to 74.5% in ’24.
Source,
https://powersportsbusiness.com/top...-positive-north-american-sales-results-in-q4/
Here are all classes of bikes lumped together. Is anyone here going to knock BMWs too?
Source - https://www.statista.com/statistics/252210/market-share-of-major-motorcycle-manufacturers-in-the-us/
For those who do not know, Harley Davidson commands a USA MARKET SHARE OF 74.5% in the heavy weight cruiser market. That has always been their specialty and no overseas company from ANY country has ever been able to get a foot hold. ALL of them have suffered and slashed offerings in the USA in that market segment. SO to expect them to sell as much as Honda, would be the same to say expect Porsche to sell the same amount of cars as Hyundai.
We are the USA, we live in luxury, a Harley is a dream bike overseas. Just a few months ago I was in an affluent area of the Philippines. Car dealers like Bentley, Rolls Royce, Ferrari etc... along with that went inside a small Harley dealership. The cruisers there are $5,000 more than the same models we buy here.
So when we compare motorcycle sales remember, companies like Honda worldwide sell millions and also in the USA about tied with Harley but those are cheap light bikes and overseas the Honda motorcycles are many mopeds. So understand the class of bikes we are talking. None of these makes offer luxury heavy cruisers that Harley does and when overseas makers did, they all failed except the Goldwing and even Honda failed miserably with their other models that were supposed to compete with Harleys other offerings over a decade ago, same goes for Yamaha and Kawasaki. Anyway, Harley commands 72% of that heavy weight market.
Remember when Polaris Victory Brand was going to kill Harley sales? What happened? Polaris shut them down and bought an auto parts business with the proceeds. Now in addition to jet skies, atvs etc they bought the Indian name a year or two before or around that time in 2012. That was supposed to be the next Harley killer and yet a decade later Harley still comands a 75% market share. I'm just saying this cause it is silly lumping luxury road traveling cruises with throwaway sport bikes and mopeds. SO we do the same things with automobiles of course not.
“The launch of our new Street Glide and Road Glidetouring motorcycles contributed to nearly 5% growth in the U.S. Touring segment and drove H-D’s market share to 74.5% in ’24.
Source,
https://powersportsbusiness.com/top...-positive-north-american-sales-results-in-q4/
Here are all classes of bikes lumped together. Is anyone here going to knock BMWs too?
Source - https://www.statista.com/statistics/252210/market-share-of-major-motorcycle-manufacturers-in-the-us/
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